Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

qui tient davantage du face à face d'égos

English translation:

which is/was more like a clash of egos

Added to glossary by Tony M
May 7, 2020 20:19
4 yrs ago
61 viewers *
French term

qui tient davantage du face à face

French to English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Opera festival review
Autre paire de manches pour la Rencontre Inédite de Karita Mattila (avec qui nous avons échangé il y a plusieurs jours) et d’Evgeny Kissin, qui tient davantage du face à face d’égos que de la musique de chambre.

Is this about depending on strong egos of a singer, rather than from Chamber music itself?
Change log

May 9, 2020 22:05: Tony M changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/1213228">Lara Barnett's</a> old entry - "qui tient davantage du face à face"" to ""which is/was more like a clash of egos""

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): GILLES MEUNIER

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Discussion

Tony M May 7, 2020:
@ Asker 'tenir' of course — 'tenir davantage de' freely translated 'to be more like' (just as in EN, it's not necessary to have another half of the comparative)
Lara Barnett (asker) May 7, 2020:
@ Tony Yes, but what it refers to and which term it qualifies.
Tony M May 7, 2020:
@ Asker Why? It means 'more', and as long as you understand what the FR expression 'tenir de...' means, it shouldn't present any problem?
Lara Barnett (asker) May 7, 2020:
@ Tony I find "davantage" a bit ambiguous here.
Tony M May 7, 2020:
@ Phil Thanks so much for giving us the woefully lacking context!

Yes, this sounds like a confrontation of egos — two soloists, each eminent in their own right; clearly, Maestro Kissin isn't going to fall back easily into the role of a "mere" accompanist. Sounds a bit like 'Clash of the Titans'!
Lara Barnett (asker) May 7, 2020:
@ Phil Context here is the second review (2nd paragraph) on this page:
https://www.opera-online.com/fr/columns/thibaultv/les-lieder...
philgoddard May 7, 2020:
More context This is about a chamber music recital. Mattila is the singer, and Kissin the pianist. It continues: "dans tous les cas, la soprano n’a pas l’opportunité de respirer à sa guise." I think the bit Laura is asking about may mean that Kissin wasn't empathising with the singer he was supposed to be accompanying.

Lara - please give us as much background information as possible. Thanks!

Proposed translations

+8
1 hr
Selected

which is/was more like a clash of egos

The FR expression 'tenir de...' means, in essence, 'resembles' — « Elle tient de sa mère » — "she looks like her mother". So with 'davantage', it means "resembled more a..."
So you can make this as subtle or as obvious as you like... to me 'face à face' definitely implies a not-wholly-constructive 'confrontation'.
As for the tense, I think there's a good case to be made for regarding this FR present tense as a 'narrative present' recounting what seems clearly to have been a past event, whence my suggestion of using a simple past tense in EN.

I'm not a great lover of Duolinguo, but here's an example they give of this same construction, albeit with a very different rendering in EN:

"Elle tient de son père." - Duolingoforum.duolingo.com › comment › El...

"Elle tient de son père." Traduction :She takes after her father.


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Note added at 12 hrs (2020-05-08 08:44:05 GMT)
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Note how in EN we say 'takes after' whereas in FR we say 'tenir de' — literally, 'holds from', but same logic.

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Note added at 14 hrs (2020-05-08 11:17:36 GMT)
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I think it might be better to say 'which seemed / felt more like a..."
Note from asker:
OK, great, thanks.
Peer comment(s):

agree j1lrh807bkjg
18 mins
Thanks j1!
agree philgoddard : I was thinking "qui" referred to Kissin, but of course it's the "rencontre".
1 hr
Thanks, Phil!
agree SafeTex
10 hrs
Thanks, S/T!
agree Sheila Wilson
10 hrs
Thanks, Sheila!
agree EirTranslations
11 hrs
Oh hi Beatriz! Thanks a lot!
agree writeaway : Not exactly Gerald Moore and Schwarzkopf. Two major soloists attempting to get together for a bit of Lieder, each going their own way musically. She's a Wagnerian soprano and he's a concert pianist. Good luck with that one...
13 hrs
Thanks! You read my mind: it was exactly they who came to mind when I wrote this; unfortunate (or provocative?) programming, to say the least. I don't see a virtuoso like Kissin in this role at all.
agree AllegroTrans : using "resembles" or "resembling" would work well and sound a little more compact
13 hrs
Thanks, C!
agree Eliza Hall
20 hrs
Thanks, Eliza!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-2
54 mins

that keeps the confrontation of two egos under control

tenir davantage=to keep under control

BTW, I actually came up with this translation before Tony M posted, but had decided to mull it over.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : This is exactly the opposite of what it means — the expression in FR is 'tenir de...', which has a totally different meaning from 'restrain'
9 mins
disagree Rob Grayson : Unfortunately, this is a total mistranslation.
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
19 hrs

which has rather to do with a clash of egos

my take
Peer comment(s):

agree Eliza Hall
1 hr
Thanks!
neutral Tony M : A lot better — though the use of 'rather' tends to invite some opposition which in this case is absent in the s/t.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
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