| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Poll: The best method for translating poetry into your native language is: Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "The best method for translating poetry into your native language is:".
This poll was originally submitted by Assem AlKhallouf. View the poll results »
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There is no "best" method. In a particular case, the choice of approach will depend on the source language, the poetic conventions in source and target languages, and the context of the specific assignment.
A regular client once sent me a magazine article to translate that turned out to include two poems. The article stressed the tradi... See more There is no "best" method. In a particular case, the choice of approach will depend on the source language, the poetic conventions in source and target languages, and the context of the specific assignment.
A regular client once sent me a magazine article to translate that turned out to include two poems. The article stressed the traditional metre of the poems, which employed the "balladic" iambic heptameter. This was also commonly used in English, so I decided to attempt to preserve the rhythm, even where it meant taking some liberties with the order of the phrases or some of the expressions. I thought it would be an interesting challenge.
If I'd been translating into a target language whose poetic tradition did not include the heptameter, a different approach might have been more appropriate. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michael Harris 
Germany
Local time: 04:29
Member (2006)
German to English
I do not translate poetry.
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It depends on what the translation will be used for. Different strategies work on different occasions.
At big celebrations in Denmark it is customary for relatives to write songs about the central people - the person whose birthday it is, the young person being confirmed - which is as much a secular coming of age in Denmark as a church occasion - or a wedding couple, and not least couples celebrating anniversaries.
I have been asked on several occasions to provide a tr... See more It depends on what the translation will be used for. Different strategies work on different occasions.
At big celebrations in Denmark it is customary for relatives to write songs about the central people - the person whose birthday it is, the young person being confirmed - which is as much a secular coming of age in Denmark as a church occasion - or a wedding couple, and not least couples celebrating anniversaries.
I have been asked on several occasions to provide a translation for guests, so that they know what is going on. Here it is important to convey the allusions and jokes as far as possible, and the cues for clapping or other actions. These may be given in prose at the top of the song, or they may come in the song, or as a refrain.
Here it is usually impossible for guests to sing along, but with a literal translation they can join in the fun.
I have seen many beautiful - and singable - translations of hymns, in which the original is rephrased, and does not necessarily fit the original tune, but works well.
Likewise nursery rhymes - but I have also seen some terrible attempts on YouTube at singing songs from other languages in Italian.
For a poem in a narrative, I would translate lines or stanzas fairly literally - as far as possible in poetic language and in the correct order, but I would not attempt to recreate actual poetry.
I translated some children's books for my son, and here I attempted to reproduce little rhymes as rhymes or songs. These are often easier, as they are very simple texts! In at least one case we found a better, but less literal version later, in a library book. ▲ Collapse
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| Google Translate | Jun 30, 2021 |
Machine translation will be more faithful to the original. Human translation will always be an interpretation.
| | | | Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
| Rather unexpected poll | Jun 30, 2021 |
It might be interesting to learn:
a) what led to it being proposed;
b) what led to it being published.
***
Here is poll proposal:
How could we earn more as translators:
a) translate more words per day;
b) learn to use MT efficiently;
c) replace existing clients with higher-paying ones;
d) offer innovative high-value services;
e) other.
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 04:29
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Not those old chestnuts again | Jun 30, 2021 |
Mihai Badea wrote:
It might be interesting to learn:
a) what led to it being proposed;
b) what led to it being published.
***
Here is poll proposal:
How could we earn more as translators:
a) translate more words per day;
b) learn to use MT efficiently;
c) replace existing clients with higher-paying ones;
d) offer innovative high-value services;
e) other.
There's already too much talk/rant going on on the subject of money, and of other "external" aspects of this profession.
For once, it's refreshing to talk about something specific that goes to the core of what translation is and does. Money is important, yet Hearts starve as well as bodies/Give us bread, but give us roses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsvGPj0LH0M
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I try to replicate the most important features of the poem, whether it be meter, rhyme, free verse, semantic message, or whatever. I think capturing the mood intended by the poet is more important than being faithful to the words and the order in which they appear.
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Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
| Not all is money | Jun 30, 2021 |
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
There's already too much talk/rant going on on the subject of money, and of other "external" aspects of this profession.
That's true. But going through life "like a poet", in our times ... Perhaps you're lucky.
Anyway, it must be acknoledged translating poetry is hard. Having one single native language can certainly help.
[Edited at 2021-06-30 08:11 GMT]
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 04:29
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Carmina panem non dant | Jun 30, 2021 |
No, Mihai, I'm not "lucky". But that's not my point.
Poets and writers have always struggle with money, and translators don't exactly drown in it either, especially literary translators (well, at least in Italy); my point is that – since its inception in 1999 – this website has always seen a deluge of threads about money, CAT-tools, what-have-you.
I've been on and off on here since 2006, and I'm so sick and tired of this incessant kind of talk, that never seems to offer a ... See more No, Mihai, I'm not "lucky". But that's not my point.
Poets and writers have always struggle with money, and translators don't exactly drown in it either, especially literary translators (well, at least in Italy); my point is that – since its inception in 1999 – this website has always seen a deluge of threads about money, CAT-tools, what-have-you.
I've been on and off on here since 2006, and I'm so sick and tired of this incessant kind of talk, that never seems to offer a definitive solution, probably because there isn't one.
Let's talk about those issues, but there's so much more to translation than them.
Therefore, once in a while, it's good to talk about something that is on a different level and offers different, interesting, inspiring perspectives.
I'm grateful for this poll, it's a breath of fresh air. ▲ Collapse
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Though I like reading poetry (mostly Fernando Pessoa and all his heteronyms), I’ve never translated it and I have to admit that I don't know much about the ins and outs of translating a poem.
| | | | | Meaning not words | Jun 30, 2021 |
Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:
I think capturing the mood intended by the poet is more important than being faithful to the words and the order in which they appear.
Ideally, the translation should convey the same concepts, feelings and mood to the reader as the original poem did. Whether that's through the same words, rhythms, etc., or different ones is of secondary importance.
This raises the question of to what extent translation is possible in particular cases. The Star Trek NG episode, Darmok,
provides a good illustration of how communication with true aliens may be difficult or impossible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-wzr74d7TI
Here, both sides have excellent translation machines and each can understand the other's words, yet neither side has any idea at all what the other is trying to say.
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Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
| Slightly off-topic: granular polls (suggestion) | Jun 30, 2021 |
There is a forum dedicated to poetry*. Kudos to the ProZ.com staff for that!
But there might be indeed a need for some more granular polls. They are fun and sometimes can spark interesting discussions.
Perhaps a solution can be considered where a poll feature is attached to every forum section.
*https://www.proz.com/forum/literature_poetry-22.html
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:29
Member (2008)
Italian to English
"The best method for translating poetry into your native language is:"
There is no method. It takes a lot more than method.
Consider, for example, the great Scottish writer Alasdair Gray's translation of Dante into everyday, intimate, modern verse that not only captures the meanings and allusions of what Dante says but also strives to maintain the rhythm, the incessant forward motion, of Dante's hendecasyllabic metre. Not exactly Dante, but an interesting experiment, as though Dante were a present-day Glaswegian:
Dante:
Queste parole di colore oscuro
vid' ïo scritte al sommo d'una porta;
per ch'io: «Maestro, il senso lor m'è duro».
Ed elli a me, come persona accorta:
«Qui si convien lasciare ogne sospetto;
ogne viltà convien che qui sia morta.
Noi siam venuti al loco ov' i' t'ho detto
che tu vedrai le genti dolorose
c'hanno perduto il ben de l'intelletto».
Gray:
These fearful words carved deeply I could see
above a great dark doorway, so I cried
"O Master, do these words apply to me?"
Like a good teacher giving calm advice,
"Don't think that I mislead you," he replied.
"By now you should have lost your cowardice.
I am assigned (recall) to help you view
the final state of those dead sinners who
chose to corrupt the goodness of their minds."
There is no method in this. There's analysis, intelligence; understanding of the original poem in the other language; a lot of hard work; and not doing it for the money.
HELL: Dante's Divine Trilogy Part One. Decorated and Englished in Prosaic Verse by Alasdair Gray: https://tinyurl.com/yexvb4jd
[Edited at 2021-06-30 10:09 GMT]
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 04:29
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Fernando Pessoa as Ricardo Reis | Jun 30, 2021 |
Teresa Borges wrote:
Though I like reading poetry (mostly Fernando Pessoa and all his heteronyms), I’ve never translated it and I have to admit that I don't know much about the ins and outs of translating a poem.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find who the author of the English translation is:
Para ser grande, sê inteiro: nada
Teu exagera ou exclui.
Sê todo em cada coisa. Põe quanto és
No mínimo que fazes.
Assim em cada lago a lua toda
Brilha, porque alta vive
In order to be big, be whole: nothing
Of yours exaggerates or excludes.
Be all that is in everything. Put all of yourself
In the smallest things you do.
Like this in every lake the whole moon
Shines, because it lives high
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