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Off topic: 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing
Thread poster: Renquan Yang
CHEN-Ling
CHEN-Ling  Identity Verified
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冷静面对嘈杂的西方舆论 让中国成为成熟大国 Apr 20, 2008

http://news.sohu.com/20080415/n256299867.shtml
最近,有不少中国学者、专家在谈及西方媒体或公众对中国产生的种种误解时,常常用西方还“不适应”中国的崛起来做解释。问题的关键可能在于,这种不适应是如何产生的,笔者认为,目前发生的不愉快在很大程度上是因为缺乏沟通而造成的。
... See more
http://news.sohu.com/20080415/n256299867.shtml
最近,有不少中国学者、专家在谈及西方媒体或公众对中国产生的种种误解时,常常用西方还“不适应”中国的崛起来做解释。问题的关键可能在于,这种不适应是如何产生的,笔者认为,目前发生的不愉快在很大程度上是因为缺乏沟通而造成的。

西方人对中国的发展变化充满了好奇,他们兴奋、激动和怀疑,他们对中国这只沉睡多年的“狮子”终于慢慢醒来充满期望,但这一切都伴随着怀疑和担忧。因为西方人,包括学者和普通民众,都认为中国的问题实在太多、太复杂了,没有一个西方学者敢于预测中国经济会有如此高速的发展。

中国落后的基础建设、沉重的人口压力、薄弱的农村经济、新旧混杂的规章制度,以及令人无从下手的环境恶化问题,曾使许多西方学者不敢展望中国的未来。
......
一位曾经到过西藏的瑞士同事发出感叹:西藏明明不是目前西方媒体所报道的那样,但事情怎么会闹成这样呢?这句话令我对近期因拉萨3.14暴乱事件引发的连锁反应有了一个新的分析角度:我们这几十年来一直在西藏默默无闻地建设着,修铁路,建公路,盖新居,兴超市,办学校,立医院;花巨资,缮寺庙,我们做了这么多功德无量的善事、好事,西方人怎么都毫不知晓呢?这种情况的发生,除了有些西方人士压根儿就没把西藏看作是中国的一部分,别有用心地造谣中伤外,另外一个原因与达赖集团多年来不间断的不实“宣传”有关。国际问题专家已经注意到,“藏独”分子多年来一直善于与国际媒体“沟通”和“公关”,散布不实信息,因而形成了一定的舆论基础。

而相比之下,我们对西藏发展深刻变化的宣传对国内公众做的多,但对国际公众则显得薄弱。这显然不利于中国形象的建立与维护。

尽管中国这30年来取得了巨大进步,但对于许多从没到过中国的外国人来讲,他们对中国的认识永远是片面的、过时的。我问过许多从未踏足中国的瑞士朋友,他们说,除了中国电影留下的印象之外,全是从当地媒体上获取的信息。问他们对上海了解多少,回答总是“听说像纽约”这句话。试想,中国东部发达地区尚且不被大多数西方人所熟悉,要他们了解西藏等西部地区就更困难了。既然我们不能指望全世界大多数人都能到中国来看一看,那就只有靠我们主动地对外多做沟通推介工作了。
......
我从来不否认媒体所存在的意识形态性,这无论对于中国媒体还是外国媒体,概莫例外。但是媒体在坚持意识形态性的同时,应当遵循媒体最基本的属性,那就是客观真实性。但是,法国广有影响的《解放报》在报道北京奥运圣火在巴黎传递时,却大面积地颠倒黑白,搬弄是非。明眼人都知道,奥运圣火在巴黎传递过程中出现的一些丑剧,是法国政府和媒体公开纵容的结果。

以恐惧和嫉妒的心态看待中国,一切都变成了扭曲的政治图景。西方城市发生骚乱,那是挑战社会秩序的违法事件;若中国城市发生骚乱,例如此次拉萨暴乱,就被不假思索地描绘成追求自由、民主和人权的抗争行动。至于“藏独”分子以暴力行动干扰奥运圣火传递,同样符合西方人看待中国的政治逻辑和政治需求。因此,虽然抢夺火炬、扰乱传递火炬行程的“藏独”分子是"少数人",但他们却是一种政治替身,代表了西方很多人对中国的固有偏见、歧视和敌意。

[Edited at 2008-04-20 09:59]
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wonita (X)
wonita (X)
China
Local time: 16:53
Affirmative action in Germany Apr 20, 2008

[quote]Jason Ma wrote:
我觉得很困惑。
许多持有这种观点的人,并没有到过少数民族聚居的区域,就算去过,或者只是走马观花式的,十天,30天,3个月?
现实情况是:少数民族反倒成了让汉族羡慕,甚至嫉妒的“特权族群”。Wenjer您刚才提到人口比例。我所经历的是,汉族只能生一个,少数民族可以多生,偏远地区,牧区则没有限制,只要能养活。我家里弟兄姊妹有7个,这对汉族中国人来说可以说是骇人听闻。此外,少数民族农民免税,商人减税,或免税。你如果到上海,海口这样的城市,少数民族经营的餐饮业是免税的。
高考时少数民族有照顾分数(Something like the Affirmative Action in US), 成绩更低的有少数民族预科班(实际上是在一年内重新补习一遍高中课程,保证你上大学,我就是在这样的班中回锅了一遍,上了大学,学会了英语,有机会跟您和其他译坛前辈交流)。在上学期间学费减免,伙食有额外补助,风俗得到尊重,I mean school authorities go out their way to respect your custom and culture. 我在西安就读的学校中当时的两个班共80多个不同来自西北的少数民族学生,好几种传统节日。每种节日上学校,市相关部门会安排活动。我们就餐的少数民族食堂,经常会有校领导突击就餐,目的是检查一下伙食质量。由于伙食质量明显高于其他食堂,价钱又便宜,汉族同学老跟着我噌饭。
在台湾,老蒋可能没有给过原住民这样的待遇。美国,我知道前两年布什总统取消了类似的待遇。欧洲,澳洲的情况我不了解。
[quote]

在同等条件下,优先录用妇女和残疾人。


 
wonita (X)
wonita (X)
China
Local time: 16:53
还有啊... Apr 20, 2008

Yueyin Sun wrote:

制造“中国将外国留学生扔出去”这种谣言的目的很可能是煽动各国政府“把中国留学生扔出去”。别国的情况咱不了解,假如美国政府把中国留学生扔出去(虚拟语气),那么美国很多高校马上就将瘫痪(非虚拟语气),因为很多中国留学生都是Teaching Assistants 和 Research Assistants。再说,“把中国留学生扔出去”之后,仍然无法达到那些人的目的,除非把所有华人全部“扔出去”。不过,假如把所有华人全部“扔出去”,那么很多公司、工厂、机构即使不瘫痪,也得瘸一条腿。

[Edited at 2008-04-19 03:55]



家庭破裂,妻离子散


 
wonita (X)
wonita (X)
China
Local time: 16:53
提议实行民主论坛 Apr 20, 2008

Mincho Young wrote:

个别人如果想利用论坛来宣传点什么,可能是找错地方了。哪怕整个论坛都沾满你的唾沫星子,北京奥运一样的召开,西藏一样属于中国,中国一样向前发展。要发泄失望愤怒的情绪到CNN去。
顺便说一句,北京奥运会大开方便之门,为各国记者提供了前所未有的采访便利。我倒希望应该有个限度,对于那些不具备职业道德的媒体,大可不必这样,就让他们编去吧!



为了在论坛上贯彻民主,特做如下提议:

只允许每人在每个题目下发一个帖子,然后让Kevin按帖子的内容作一个定性总结,省得大家在论坛上无休无止地辩论,影响工作、休息和家庭关系。不知各位意下如何?


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
我本来就是自由译者,用不着你任何“忠告”! Apr 20, 2008

Yueyin Sun wrote:
最后,给你一个忠告,take a vacation!


[Edited at 2008-04-20 12:23]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:53
Chinese to English
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CNN 的名声 Apr 20, 2008

我是奉劝大家 看任何问题不要带着有色眼镜. 在随便什么 "民众发起的网站"上听说些什么就轻易相信, 人云亦云. 若想真正搞清 CNN 报道前后的详情并得出合理的评价, 我看是要有一定的英语水平和分析能力的.

我本人是不读书不看报的, 对政治向来不太关心, 加之 对国内 这几十年的生活没有亲身经历, 当然就更不了解国内发展情况了. 但我曾听说过那个被压制的 什么
... See more
我是奉劝大家 看任何问题不要带着有色眼镜. 在随便什么 "民众发起的网站"上听说些什么就轻易相信, 人云亦云. 若想真正搞清 CNN 报道前后的详情并得出合理的评价, 我看是要有一定的英语水平和分析能力的.

我本人是不读书不看报的, 对政治向来不太关心, 加之 对国内 这几十年的生活没有亲身经历, 当然就更不了解国内发展情况了. 但我曾听说过那个被压制的 什么 功, 说起来 那 岂不也是民众发动的"民众团体" 运动吗? 所以并不是民众发起的东西就都正确.

相对地讲, CNN 这种媒体怎样运作我是比较清楚的. 不管怎样说, 我是一直看到它的前后历史的.

CNN 是尽量按事实报道的, 但机构庞大, 其宗旨又是力求在发生世界大事时马上到当地 当场按实报道, 难免忙乱中有时出些细节上的差错, 但我认为 CNN 完全没有犯什么实质上的错误, 更不会存在蓄意歪曲事实的问题.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN



History
The Central News Network was launched at 5:00 p.m. EST on June 1, 1980. After an introduction by Ted Turner, the husband and wife team of David Walker and Lois Hart anchored the first newscast.[4] Since its debut, CNN has expanded its reach to a number of cable and satellite television networks, several web sites, specialized closed-circuit networks (such as CNN Airport Network), and two radio networks. The network has 36 bureaus (10 domestic, 26 international), more than 900 affiliated local stations, and several regional and foreign-language networks around the world. The network's success made a bona-fide mogul of founder Ted Turner and set the stage for the Time Warner conglomerate's eventual acquisition of Turner Broadcasting.

Despite its domestic standing, CNN remains a distant second in international news coverage, reaching just over half of the audience of the older BBC News. Unlike the BBC's network of reporters and bureaus, CNN International makes extensive use of affiliated reporters that are local to, and often directly affected by, the events they are reporting. The effect is a more immediate, less detached style of on-the-ground coverage. This has done little to stem criticism, largely from Middle Eastern nations, that CNN International reports news from a pro-American perspective. This is a marked contrast to domestic criticisms that often portray CNN as having a "liberal" or "anti-American" bias.

A companion network, Headline News (originally called CNN2) was launched in 1982 and featured a continuous 24-hour cycle of 30-minute news broadcasts. Headline News broke from its original format in 2006 with the addition of Headline Prime. Current programs feature confrontational personalities like radio talk-show host Glenn Beck and former Fulton County, Georgia prosecutor Nancy Grace.

CNN HD was launched September 1, 2007, and was first nationally distributed by DirecTV on September 26, 2007.


The Gulf War
The first Persian Gulf War in 1991 was a watershed event for CNN that catapulted the network past the "big three" American networks for the first time in its history, largely due to an unprecedented, historical scoop: CNN was the only news outlet with the ability to communicate outside Iraq during the initial hours of the American bombing campaign, with live reports from the al-Rashid Hotel in Baghdad by reporters Bernard Shaw, John Holliman, and Peter Arnett.

The Gulf War experience brought CNN some much sought-after legitimacy and made household names of previously obscure (and infamously low-paid) reporters. Many of these reporters now comprise CNN's "old guard." Bernard Shaw became CNN's chief anchor until his retirement in 2001. Others include then-Pentagon correspondent Wolf Blitzer (now host of The Situation Room and Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer) and international correspondent Christiane Amanpour. Amanpour's presence in Iraq was caricatured by actress Nora Dunn as the ruthless reporter "Adriana Cruz" in the film Three Kings (1999). Time Warner later produced a television movie, Live from Baghdad, about the network's coverage of the first Gulf War, which aired on HBO.


The CNN effect
Coverage of the first Gulf War and other crises of the early 1990s (particularly the infamous Battle of Mogadishu) led officials at the Pentagon to coin the term "the CNN effect" to describe the perceived impact of real time, 24-hour news coverage on the decision-making processes of the American government.


September 11

CNN breaking the news about the September 11, 2001 attacksCNN was the first network to have broken news of the September 11 attacks. Anchor Carol Lin was on the air to deliver the first public report of the event. She broke into a commercial at 8:49 a.m. ET and said:

This just in. You are looking at obviously a very disturbing live shot there. That is the World Trade Center, and we have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into one of the towers of the World Trade Center. CNN Center right now is just beginning to work on this story, obviously calling our sources and trying to figure out exactly what happened, but clearly something relatively devastating happening this morning there on the south end of the island of Manhattan. That is once again, a picture of one of the towers of the World Trade Center.

Sean Murtagh, CNN vice-president for finance & administration, was the first network employee on the air in New York.[5]

Experiments
CNN launched two specialty news channels for the American market which would later close amid competitive pressure: CNNSI shut down in 2002, and CNNfn shut down after nine years on the air in December 2004. CNN and Sports Illustrated's partnership continues today online at CNNSI.com. CNNfn's former website now redirects to money.cnn.com, a product of CNN's strategic partnership with Money magazine.





Criticism and controversies
Main article: CNN controversies
CNN has been accused of media bias for allegedly promoting both a conservative and a liberal agenda based on previous incidents, although the primary criticism has been that CNN has a liberal bias. Critics, such as Accuracy in Media and MRC, have claimed that CNN's reporting contains liberal editorializing within news stories.[15][16]

CNN.com was accused by Chinese bloggers of bending the truth of the 2008 unrest in Tibet by distorting or manipulating facts. Specifically, the bloggers alleged that CNN.com deliberately cropped a photograph to remove images of Tibetan protesters throwing stones at Chinese trucks. In response to the allegation, CNN.com noted that "there could be no confusion regarding what [the photo] was showing, not least because it was captioned: ´Tibetans throw stones at army vehicles on a street in the capital Lhasa.´"[17] A Chinese website, anti-cnn.com,[18] has accused CNN and western media in general of biased reporting against China, with the catch-phrase "Don't be so CNN" catching on in the Chinese mainstream as jokingly meaning "Don't be so biased". [19]

It has been derided as the "Clinton News Network" during the 1990s for its perceived favorable bias towards the Clinton Administration.[citation needed]. Some critics[citation needed] allege that the network has been "promoting" Barack Obama during the 2008 race for presidency.

The network has also been accused of being slanted toward U.S. interests when reporting on world conflicts and wars.[specify][20] Critics such as LA Weekly say it is part of an alleged pro-war news media.[citation needed] CNN denies any bias.

Several prominent former CNN personalities have come to criticize certain aspects of the news network. Aaron Brown has said that CNN has committed "huge mistakes" and frames CNN as an "organization that is trying to figure out if it can be all things to all people." However, he also praised CNN's journalistic superiority, saying, "
N's a better journalism organization." [21] Bernard Shaw has expressed that he is "very very disappointed with the way the news management" has handled his favorite network. He criticised the effects of Fox News' "commentary [and] personal analysis" on the news reporting of CNN, saying that "CNN continues to ape many of the on-air mannerisms of the Fox News Network, and I don't like that."[22]As said by Ted Turner, founder of CNN, “There really isn’t much of a point getting some Tom, Dick or Harry off the streets to report on when we can snag a big name whom everyone identifies with. After all, it’s all part of the business.” However, in April 2008, Turner criticized the direction CNN has taken. [23]

In November of 2007, CNN aired Death Grip: Inside Pro Wrestling, a one-hour investigative report. The report included footage from an interview with pro wrestler John Cena regarding steroids. According to World Wrestling Entertainment and Cena, CNN edited Cena's responses to make it seem as if he did not deny using steroids, while leaving room open for doubt that he did. His answer to the CNN interviewer's initial query of "Have you ever taken steroids?" was, "Absolutely not." Instead, CNN edited in a more detailed answer Cena had provided several minutes later during the same interview. Cena and the WWE demanded an apology from CNN. In response to their complaint, CNN issued this statement: "CNN felt that Mr. Cena's statement in the interview: "My answer to that question 'have you ever used steroids' is -- the only thing I can say -- I can't tell you that I haven't, but you'll never be able to prove that I have" was a more expansive and complete answer -- and that's why we used it in the first run of the program. And we stand by that decision. But, we added the other quote on the Sunday replay where Mr. Cena first denied using steroids. We did this because of his complaint and the attention it received so that viewers could see how he said it both times." [24][25]

[/quote]



[Edited at 2008-04-20 16:09]
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chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
既然没有家丑,怕什么外扬? Apr 20, 2008

traiston wrote:

政府之所以不让西方媒体记者进入西藏,我认为还是传统思维的影响,即“家丑不可外扬”。


 
Jason Ma
Jason Ma  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 03:53
English to Chinese
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Angus Apr 20, 2008

Angus, thanks for your explanation. Your post appreared little bit too late before I noticed it. Sorry for this tardy reply.

Most of the time, western media is doing a pretty good job, but sometimes not. One typical example is Iraq War (from its initiative to its aftermath).
Do you think the presence of western media could prevent what happened on March 14? Or they would just inflame the situation?


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
有人认为自己在打群架, Apr 20, 2008

我却认为论坛本来就是讨论或辩论的地方,有不同看法是正常的。但是也可以看出,有些人不管是哪种意见,尽量摆事实讲道理探讨口气,而另有一些人却总是用讽刺挖苦甚至人身攻击的方法来企图压倒对方,这样只能说明他们的动机和水平,却没给讨论带来任何积极作用。如果确实要探讨,希望尽量用摆事实讲道理的方法和探讨的口气。

[Edited at 2008-04-20 16:24]


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
你这个建议要真能实现 Apr 20, 2008

确实可以使有些国家首脑松一口气。

Shang wrote:

建议国际奥委会取消邀请各国政客出席奥运开幕式这一惯例,这些“大人物”就没有什么可说的了,专心做自己的工作。


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
我已经问过是否有人想抵制外文翻译? Apr 20, 2008

好像大家还都明白,抵制对谁都没好处。

jyuan_us wrote:

抵制這抵制那﹐干脆你們抵制國外翻譯公司得了﹐這樣我好乘勢而上。


 
Renquan Yang
Renquan Yang  Identity Verified
China
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
大家没有必要生气上火 Apr 20, 2008

大家没有必要生气上火,世界这么大,发出不同声音非常正常。就是世界上有些人的心态不好,看到别人家办红事,却非要找一帮做白事的吹鼓手在喜事现场吹丧调,还大声宣称这是在享受贯彻伟大科学真理"人总要死"的自由,还不倾听主家表示不满的声音,同时主家作欢欣鼓舞状欢迎这种令人瞠目结舌的科普宣传模式,这似乎强人所难吧。

谁喜欢在别人办喜事的时候跳出来捣乱,自然是他的权利。但是到别人家做客,既然你不尊重重主人,你又何求主人尊重你呢?到了享受因自己行为不检点而遭到主人冷眼的时候又作委屈状的哭闹,呵呵,不觉得可笑吗?没有初一,哪来的十五?

关于抵制,呵呵,国外的资本家可不傻,即便你抵制,只要你这里有利可图,钻窟窿打眼他也要来的。别的不说,海外的翻译资本们现在不就看中廉价的中国脑力劳动者资源吗?


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:53
English to Chinese
+ ...
到底是谁在进行人身攻击? Apr 20, 2008

chance wrote:

我却认为论坛本来就是讨论或辩论的地方,有不同看法是正常的。但是也可以看出,有些人不管是哪种意见,尽量摆事实讲道理探讨口气,而另有一些人却总是用讽刺挖苦甚至人生攻击的方法来企图压倒对方,这样只能说明他们的动机和水平,却没给讨论带来任何积极作用。如果确实要探讨,希望尽量用摆事实讲道理的方法和探讨的口气。

[Edited at 2008-04-20 13:02]


在“样板戏入教材,是谁之忧?”那个讨论中,你说“除了极少数战犯和新纳粹份子才会有Renquan 那样的看法”。请问,这是不是人身攻击?从Renquan 的发言来看,我看不出有任何根据可以让你下那样的结论。这是一个最典型的例子。你进行讽刺挖苦甚至人身攻击的其它例子还很多,你自己应该最清楚。事实也都摆在那里。

Renquan 发起关于奥运的这个讨论,我完全可以理解他的心情。其背景是法国某电视台邀请几位人士讨论在法国巴黎传递奥运火炬时发生的事情,参加讨论的人士中包括一位中国留学生。我也看了那段节目。我虽然不懂法语,但还是能看懂字幕,也能看懂那些人的表情。那位中国留学生揭穿了法国媒体制造的谎言,把对方驳得哑口无言。Renquan 所说的“好好学习欧洲几个“民主”国家的语言”、“以牙还牙,以眼还眼”,就是这个意思。而有的人,马上就抓住这些话大做文章,兴师问罪。Kevin 企图扭转这种局面,出来说了几句话。于是有人马上就把矛头指向Kevin。从他后来的所作所为来看,他的agenda很明显就是要借机把Kevin搞掉。在其它几个题目的讨论以及这个讨论中,Kevin 一再要求不要谈政治,可你和那个人却仍然坚持要讨论西藏问题,迫使其他几位同仁不得不出来反驳。明眼人都很清楚,你们就是希望能够让你们在这里为所欲为、想说什么就说什么,而且谁反对你们的意见,你们马上就给谁扣上帽子、甚至发动人身攻击。有些以前对你很尊敬的年轻人,现在对你的态度截然改变。奉劝你自己应该好好想一想,这究竟是为什么!
chance wrote:

如果有人认为全世界大部分民主国家的人都不知道中国的情况,而中国人却知道所有其它国家的真相,你们自己相信吗?

像二战那样的战争,德国人绝大多数都在自己总结教训,除了极少数战犯和新纳粹份子才会有Renquan 那样的看法。

所谓的中国威胁论,在欧洲很少听说,也许美国有一部分人有这种看法,但也不是代表全部美国人民。如果我没理解错Renquan 帖子里的仇恨,我看警惕这种想法也不过分。
Renquan Yang wrote:

中国威胁论的实质就是欧洲中心论的具体表现罢了,因为中国发展了,就可能危及以美国和西欧国家集团为核心的现行政治经济国际秩序,就如同当年德国快速发展,实质上打乱了以当时英法为核心的国际政治经济殖民体系样。所有既得利益国家都不希望出现这么个强劲对手,而德国却希望能够在当时的国际政治秩序中占有一席之地一样。于是矛盾就此产生。当时的德国因种种原因最终采取战争途径解决问题,其最终结果众所周知。这对现在的中国也很有借鉴意义。


[Edited at 2008-03-17 10:33]

Renquan Yang wrote:

今后看来要好好学习欧洲几个“民主”国家的语言,这样起码下次再遇到4月7日在法国巴黎传递奥运火炬时候发生的事情,不会再因为语言问题而干瞪眼。圣经里好象就有这么一条“以牙还牙,以眼还眼”。但是如果语言不通,如何发挥自己的“民主自由权力”?


[Edited at 2008-04-20 14:24]


 
isahuang
isahuang
Local time: 15:53
English to Chinese
+ ...
对呀,两者都有, Apr 20, 2008

jyuan_us wrote:

isahuang wrote:

Jason Ma wrote:

其实我觉得小黄说的“皇恩”只是一个比方而已,确切地说是一帮小兄弟们老在拖累已经富起来了的老大哥而已。That simple.



你真耐心,还帮我解释一下。如果有人看不出我说的皇恩是个比方,在这上面大费笔墨,那只能是他/她另类。为了确保politically correct,我特别用了男他and女他。


整個國家都是他們家的當然要浩蕩一下﹐所以你可以說這是打比方﹐但說的卻又是事實。

我就夠另類的。

[Edited at 2008-04-20 06:23]


可有人就偏爱去引申。


 
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