pan payés

English translation: farmhouse (white) loaf

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Catalan term or phrase:pa de pagès (ES pan payés)
English translation:farmhouse (white) loaf
Entered by: Lancashireman

22:45 Dec 14, 2012
Catalan to English translations [PRO]
Food & Drink / Bread
Catalan term or phrase: pan payés
I am translating a short text about PA AMB OLI from German to English:
Man nimmt dafür sowohl pan moreno (dunkles Brot) wie pan payés (Bauernbrot).
= You can use either pan moreno (dark bread) or pan payés (farmhouse/rustic/peasant-style?)

How would you distinguish between the two types of bread in English (i.e. I am trying to sneak two terms in here). Would pan moreno be better translated as dark/black/brown/wholemeal? And is pan payés white?

Thanks for your help.

Andrew Swift (DE>EN)
Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:37
Countryman's bread / countryside bread
Explanation:
I have nothing against Michelle’s ’country bread’ but think that these are two other viable options- depending on the rest of your text. However, in my experience here in Mallorca, pan payés (‘pa de pages’ or ‘pa mallorqui’) is brown, baked in a wood burning oven and is not only coarser, but contains no salt. Catering to modern tastes, it is true that some bakers turn out a white bread version, but this is NOT ‘ typical’ . If you go to the bakers’ in any village and ask for ‘un pa’ you get brown. I agree with Michelle that ‘pan moreno’ is brown bread, and herein lies your problem. It is not an opposite term to pan payés- the original text is suspect. By the way, ‘wholemeal’ would be ‘integral’ which is something no self respecting pagès would eat, leaving that to health food freaks, hippies etc.

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Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2012-12-16 19:30:57 GMT)
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HUMBLE PIE
To set the record straight - at least for Mallorca. I am (very) reliably informed that while pa mallorqui can be either brown or white, pa de pagès is in reality neither one nor the other: it is both lighter (colour-wise) than brown and also browner than white, it is heavier and more mealier, ‘thicker’ and more ‘concentrated’ for lack of a better word. As I wrote earlier, it is indeed baked in a wood burning oven and contains no added salt. I apologise to the Proz community for any erroneous impressions I gave you before.


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Note added at 3 days9 hrs (2012-12-18 08:13:21 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

There must be better places to buy decent bread than Eroski, even in El Arenal!
Selected response from:

Rick Larg
Spain
Local time: 10:37
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1pa de pagès = traditional Catalan bread (round, white loaf))
Sheila Hardie
5country bread
Michelle Kusuda
4 +1Countryman's bread / countryside bread
Rick Larg
4Farmhouse loaf
Berni Armstrong


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
pa de pagès = traditional Catalan bread (round, white loaf))


Explanation:
In fact, the Catalan name is 'pa de pagès' not 'pan payés' (the Spanish name) and it is almost always white bread - a round loaf, sold sliced or unsliced. People often use it to make 'pa amb tomàquet' - bread slices rubbed with ripe tomato and garlic then you drizzle olive oil on top and sprinkle a little salt to taste.

In your context, I would say that they are contrasting brown bread with the white round Catalan 'country-style'/'peasant-style' loaf.

You can find brown 'pa de pagès' but it is almost always white.

There is a photo on the following website:

http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pa_de_pagès

HTH


Sheila

Sheila Hardie
Spain
Local time: 10:37
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for your detailed reply. I am sure the author did indeed wish to contrast brown and white loaves.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Andy Watkinson
39 mins

neutral  Rick Larg: 'Pa amb tomaquet' is the 'pa amb oli' of Les Isles, except that in Mallorca people (almost always) use 'pa mallorqui' as descibed above, and might even spread sobrassada on the bread after the 'oli': 'pa sobrassada', in which case no 'tòmatiga de ramallet
2 hrs
  -> Thanks for explaining, Rick - it's obviously very different from the system here then. Sounds good too though :)
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54 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
country bread


Explanation:
Okay, in Catalonia, pan payés refers to "country bread" to distinguish it from baguette style bread.

Pan moreno = Brown bread

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Note added at 12 hrs (2012-12-15 11:24:23 GMT)
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Here are the full specifications:
http://www20.gencat.cat/docs/DAR/AL_Alimentacio/AL02_Qualita...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2012-12-15 11:27:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And here is the link to "images" for it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=pa de pages catala&hl=en&clie...


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Note added at 15 hrs (2012-12-15 13:55:30 GMT)
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http://www.naciodigital.cat/blocdefotos/fotos/gran/pa_amb_ol...

Michelle Kusuda
United States
Local time: 05:37
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for being first on the scene and for the informative URLs.

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1 day 1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Farmhouse loaf


Explanation:
That's what we used to call them at home.

Example sentence(s):
  • Nearly 7 million hits on Google for this term :)
Berni Armstrong
Spain
Local time: 10:37
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for confirming ‘farmhouse’. I agree that country/countryside/country-style would not mean much to an EN reader.

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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Countryman's bread / countryside bread


Explanation:
I have nothing against Michelle’s ’country bread’ but think that these are two other viable options- depending on the rest of your text. However, in my experience here in Mallorca, pan payés (‘pa de pages’ or ‘pa mallorqui’) is brown, baked in a wood burning oven and is not only coarser, but contains no salt. Catering to modern tastes, it is true that some bakers turn out a white bread version, but this is NOT ‘ typical’ . If you go to the bakers’ in any village and ask for ‘un pa’ you get brown. I agree with Michelle that ‘pan moreno’ is brown bread, and herein lies your problem. It is not an opposite term to pan payés- the original text is suspect. By the way, ‘wholemeal’ would be ‘integral’ which is something no self respecting pagès would eat, leaving that to health food freaks, hippies etc.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2012-12-16 19:30:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

HUMBLE PIE
To set the record straight - at least for Mallorca. I am (very) reliably informed that while pa mallorqui can be either brown or white, pa de pagès is in reality neither one nor the other: it is both lighter (colour-wise) than brown and also browner than white, it is heavier and more mealier, ‘thicker’ and more ‘concentrated’ for lack of a better word. As I wrote earlier, it is indeed baked in a wood burning oven and contains no added salt. I apologise to the Proz community for any erroneous impressions I gave you before.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days9 hrs (2012-12-18 08:13:21 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

There must be better places to buy decent bread than Eroski, even in El Arenal!

Example sentence(s):
  • Es fa imprescindible l'ús del típic pa mallorquí, dens, moreno i sense sal, amb farina de blat.

    Reference: http://queennantpertu.blogspot.com.es/2009/12/pa-de-payes.ht...
    Reference: http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llista_de_plats_t%C3%ADpics_de_...
Rick Larg
Spain
Local time: 10:37
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for replying in such detail. I found the Mallorquín perspective most helpful. I should really pay more attention next time I am staying in Es Arenal and purchase bread from Eroski.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Michelle Kusuda: http://www.origenonline.es/reportajes-pa-pages/1/2064.html
5 hrs
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