puits à roue

English translation: wheel-operated well

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:puits à roue
English translation:wheel-operated well
Entered by: Conor McAuley

14:26 Apr 29, 2021
French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
French term or phrase: puits à roue
This is a type of water wheel but using water from a well, but I don't know whether there is a name for it in English or whether it's a very specific invention. (I'm translating a text about a silk mill in the Cévennes.) I'd use 'wheel well' but that has a very different meaning in English, of course. Can anyone help? (This text is getting far too technical!)
Anne McDowall
France
Local time: 17:01
wheel-operated well
Explanation:
SAVILE, Robert Vesey - Durham Universityreed.dur.ac.uk › xtf › view › savilerv
Traduire cette page
... Y.B.) on horseback SAD.7/3/72-80 Views in Kassala SAD.7/3/72 ***Wheel-operated well*** SAD.7/3/73 Building, possibly an inspector's house SAD.7/3/74-75 Tukl ..

Some evidence for this term.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2021-04-30 11:20:26 GMT)
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Picture of the kind of thing I have in mind:

https://fr.123rf.com/photo_11171781_l-eau-de-puits-à-roue-à-...

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Note added at 20 hrs (2021-04-30 11:23:32 GMT)
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An image search can be handy in cases like this. Lots of variety:

https://www.google.com/search?q="puits à roue"&oq="puits à r...

Anne, I suppose if you wanted to play it very safe, you could put "well with a wheel". There is a strong case for this, given the variety of possible set-ups, as demonstrated by my image search above.

"well equipped with a wheel" is perhaps clearer.

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Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2021-04-30 17:59:08 GMT) Post-grading
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To Anne: yes a very interesting one. It didn't turn out to be as simple as all that!
Selected response from:

Conor McAuley
France
Local time: 17:01
Grading comment
Thanks to all who contributed: this post certainly provoked some discussion! Given that it would appear that there is no universal English term for such a system, and that the French 'puits à roue' is only used once, in the heading to describe the Occitan word, I think Conor's proposal is the safest and simplest here.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3wheel-operated well
Conor McAuley
3 +1Persian water wheel / Persian well / Persian wheel
Althea Draper
4 -1Water wheel pit
Lara Barnett
3pousarenque
Mpoma
3 -1well-to-wheel
Lisa Rosengard
4 -3rotates well
MassimoA


Discussion entries: 24





  

Answers


30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Water wheel pit


Explanation:
I think this is a possibility.

The site of what was once the world's largest water wheel has been excavated by archaeologists in Stockport. The Wellington Water Wheel, part of Mellor Mill, was the biggest in the world when it was built in 1793. In its heyday, the mill employed about 550 people. It was destroyed by fire in 1892.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17320765

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Note added at 36 mins (2021-04-29 15:02:50 GMT)
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"Oxford Archaeology undertook a programme of archaeological investigation and recording on the surviving walls and other remains of a WATER WHEEL PIT at Anchor Island, to the south-west of Kelmscott, on the border between Oxfordshire and Gloucestershire. The site forms part of the Buscot Estate and was commissioned by The National Trust in advance of proposed repair and consolidation works to the structure. The substantial remains survive from a pair of waterwheels which were installed in the 1860s to pump water from a well adjacent to the Thames around Buscot estate as part of major agricultural improvement works and an ambitious irrigation scheme created by Robert Campbell the new owner of Buscot Park."
https://library.oxfordarchaeology.com/295/


Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:01
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
2 corroborated select projects
in this pair and field What is ProZ.com Project History(SM)?

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  philgoddard: Wikipedia: "A water wheel is a machine for converting the energy of flowing or falling water into useful forms of power, often in a watermill."
14 mins
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48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Persian water wheel / Persian well / Persian wheel


Explanation:
"A Persian well is a type of water well found in the Middle East, often used in conjunction with a qanat. These wells feature an ox-driven pump where the ox walks in circles around a central drive shaft which turns a wheel that raises water via a chain of buckets from the qanat or a well. In some cases water flows fast enough that a subterranean waterwheel may harness enough power to raise the buckets of water to the surface level. Its not a well but a wheel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_well

"A sāqiyah or saqiya (Arabic: ساقية‎), also spelled sakia or saqia) is a mechanical water lifting device. It is also called a Persian wheel, tablia, rehat, and in Latin tympanum.[1] It is similar in function to a scoop wheel, which uses buckets, jars, or scoops fastened either directly to a vertical wheel, or to an endless belt activated by such a wheel. The vertical wheel is itself attached by a drive shaft to a horizontal wheel, which is traditionally set in motion by animal power (oxen, donkeys, etc.) Because it is not using the power of flowing water, the sāqiyah is different from a noria and any other type of water wheel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqiyah#With_buckets_attached_...

"Persian wheel
Device to lift water, particularly for agricultural purposes. It consists of an endless chain of buckets, typically with an individual capacity of 8-15 litres mounted on a drum and submerged in water to the required depth. The drum is connected to a toothed wheel held in a vertical plane by a long shaft usually kept below ground level. The vertical toothed wheel is geared with a large toothed horizontal wheel connected to a horizontal beam. This beam is yoked to a pair of animals. The animals move in a circle to turn the drum and raise the water. Water is released when the bucket reaches the top."
https://sswm.info/content/persian-wheel

Videos here https://www.indiawaterportal.org/articles/persian-wheel-wate...



Althea Draper
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Cyril Tollari: Not sure if Persian well is the correct term in English, but this is the only answer with a correct description for a "posaranca", not to be confused with "posalanca", which is something else.
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Cyril

neutral  Mpoma: Looking at images for "Persian well" and "puits à roue", they seem to have a slight but distinct difference, namely that the former has buckets actually on a rope or chain which loops round the wheel, but this is not so for puits à roue...
17 hrs
  -> Have a look at the whole text (including the title) that Anne posted in the comments which also describes the 'posaranca ou puits à roue'
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -3
rotates well


Explanation:
The sense is that the wheel turns well.

MassimoA
Italy
Local time: 17:01
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  ormiston: Non sense
1 hr

disagree  SafeTex: Hello MassimoA. There is nothing in the French to suggest this and the asker has explained what is meant by the French phrase too so I'm afraid your answer makes little sense this time
4 hrs

neutral  Mpoma: Haha. So funny I can't "disagree"
23 hrs

disagree  AllegroTrans: Imaginative, but sadly quite wrong
5 days
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1 day 3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
pousarenque


Explanation:
From this link provided by Althea:

http://cevenols.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/LCC-143.pdf

... the author there favours this spelling, although there are others. I think we should actively choose a French regional dialect word, in defiance of the French Académie's well-known and obnoxious hatred of French regional languages. The obvious, crude neologism puits à roue being as about as convincing as "balladeuse". IMHO the regional word should be put in italics, with an explanation the first time it is mentioned.

That is... UNLESS there really is an English equivalent. I can't quite work out whether, from a technical standpoint, this is or is not identical to a "Persian well/water wheel/etc.".

Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:01
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
wheel-operated well


Explanation:
SAVILE, Robert Vesey - Durham Universityreed.dur.ac.uk › xtf › view › savilerv
Traduire cette page
... Y.B.) on horseback SAD.7/3/72-80 Views in Kassala SAD.7/3/72 ***Wheel-operated well*** SAD.7/3/73 Building, possibly an inspector's house SAD.7/3/74-75 Tukl ..

Some evidence for this term.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2021-04-30 11:20:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


Picture of the kind of thing I have in mind:

https://fr.123rf.com/photo_11171781_l-eau-de-puits-à-roue-à-...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2021-04-30 11:23:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

An image search can be handy in cases like this. Lots of variety:

https://www.google.com/search?q="puits à roue"&oq="puits à r...

Anne, I suppose if you wanted to play it very safe, you could put "well with a wheel". There is a strong case for this, given the variety of possible set-ups, as demonstrated by my image search above.

"well equipped with a wheel" is perhaps clearer.

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Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2021-04-30 17:59:08 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

To Anne: yes a very interesting one. It didn't turn out to be as simple as all that!

Conor McAuley
France
Local time: 17:01
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks to all who contributed: this post certainly provoked some discussion! Given that it would appear that there is no universal English term for such a system, and that the French 'puits à roue' is only used once, in the heading to describe the Occitan word, I think Conor's proposal is the safest and simplest here.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Conor! (Now just got to try to make sense of the rest of it!)

Asker: Thanks Conor, I think your suggestion is the safest bet. This post has certainly provoked some discussion!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Lara Barnett: But surely the wheel is operated by the well, not the other way round. This sounds like the well is operated by the wheel.
9 mins
  -> I think you're thinking of a water wheel (roue à aubes apparently). I'm assuming the water is a "raw material" here, not a source of power. I'm not sure much power is needed to make silk, much less to paint it.

agree  philgoddard: Yes, the well is operated by the wheel. It's also called a shadoof, which we learned about in geography: http://cessenon.centerblog.net/m/311266-Chadouf-ou-poselanca
13 mins
  -> Wow, thanks Phil!

agree  Saeed Najmi: It's the wheel that operates the well indeed.
31 mins
  -> Thanks Saeed!

neutral  Mpoma: I think this is too fancy. Plus a wheel can't be said to "operate" something, IMHO: only humans or machinery "operate" things. See my suggestion.
18 hrs
  -> This is what I have in mind: https://fr.123rf.com/photo_11171781_l-eau-de-puits-à-roue-à-...

agree  AllegroTrans: Perhaps use the French term with this in brackets
5 days
  -> Always a good call, but I imagine this is in a museum or visitor centre or some such.
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2 days 9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
well-to-wheel


Explanation:
I found the above to be a fixed phrase used in connection with energy efficiency and the drawbacks of emissions.
Two example sentences are:
(1)"Such an approach considers the impact which 'well-to-wheel' emissions have, also by taking into account the effects of emissions from electricity generated on the environment."
(2) "Conventional vehicles could increase 'well-to-wheel' efficiency up to a proportion of 30%."

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Note added at 10 days (2021-05-09 23:16:46 GMT) Post-grading
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Wheels are inherent property of vehicles, as everyone knows, but if it's about water wells being wheel driven there's an issue of efficiency and the generation of water power.

Example sentence(s):
  • (1) "Une telle approche considère l'impact des émissions de puits à la roue, en tenant compte, également, des émissions provenant de la génération de l'éléctricité, et les effets sur l'environnement."
  • (2) " Les véhicuoles classiques pourraient augmenter dans une proportion pouvant atteindre un 30%, d'un rendement de puits à roue."

    https://www.linguee.com/french-english/translation/du+puits+%C3%A0+la+roue.html
Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:01
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  AllegroTrans: Total misunderstanding of "à roue" and you obviously didn't read asker's text which has absolutely nothing to do with vehicles and emissions
2 days 22 hrs
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