| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29] > |
一个英国人的汉译英试译（以此接得某大项目） Thread poster: Alan Wang
|
|---|
ysun 
United States
Local time: 12:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
dumont,
多看看别人的长处和自己的短处是很有好处的。至少不能用自己的长处去比别人的短处。
| | | |
Kevin Yang
Local time: 10:59
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| As translators, we all have the passion to make our translation better. | Mar 20, 2009 |
Hello, Steve and dumont,
Your discussion did remind me some similar debates we had in this forum in the past. I hope Yueyin can remember it well. The links that Steve introduced are helpful for us to open our eyes wider and see how other people think about this subject. I think one of the positive outcomes from your discussion is about the appropriate attitude and mindset a translator should have when commenting on other translator’s work and taking suggestions from other people. ... See more Hello, Steve and dumont,
Your discussion did remind me some similar debates we had in this forum in the past. I hope Yueyin can remember it well. The links that Steve introduced are helpful for us to open our eyes wider and see how other people think about this subject. I think one of the positive outcomes from your discussion is about the appropriate attitude and mindset a translator should have when commenting on other translator’s work and taking suggestions from other people.
As translators, we all have the passion to make our translation better. As nobody is perfect, I also do not believe there is a perfect translation. If we all can make effort to admire and appreciate on the good parts and make suggestions to improve other parts, we all can learn something from each other. By challenging, criticizing, or even ridiculing a person, one will have difficult time to bring any desirable result, even though he meant well. The constructive approach at this translator’s workplace is to suggest what you think in order to make a translation better.
Have a great weekend!
Kevin ▲ Collapse
| | | |
isahuang
Local time: 13:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
wherestip wrote: dumont wrote:
wherestip, thanks for the comment,
但我以为我列的5个问题都属于“大”的差错，
我希望你也能在我的译文里找出这样的差错。
dumont, 可惜你指出的五点基本上都是符合英文的通俗说法的. 日常听得多、看得多了, 你就会有所体会了解了. 就拿 refrigeration 一词来讲吧, 它并不仅限于冷藏的意思 ... 你的翻译也很不错, 但大体上说 我本人感觉文字稍有些平淡. 作为工艺介绍来讲, 另一篇翻译相比起来可读性更强, 更为通俗易懂.  [Edited at 2009-03-08 22:04 GMT]
不会是你做的最终决定选哪个翻译吧？:D
| | | |
Alan Wang
China
Local time: 01:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | the certainty to me | Mar 21, 2009 |
wherestip:
One point you seem to have curiously chosen to play down is that Not All British Citizens Are Native To The English Language.
The same is true that not all Americans are the Americans who speak the same native language.
I really don’t know what have made you from the beginning up to preclude the probability of this person in question being not native to the English language... to think that all your opinions have been based on it.
... See more wherestip:
One point you seem to have curiously chosen to play down is that Not All British Citizens Are Native To The English Language.
The same is true that not all Americans are the Americans who speak the same native language.
I really don’t know what have made you from the beginning up to preclude the probability of this person in question being not native to the English language... to think that all your opinions have been based on it.
In fact, I don’t think it’s a probability, it’s one hundred percent certainty to me. Just use a little common sense, without the need of that level.
wherestip wrote: dumont wrote:
You may be right that my English is barely at the level to tell if a paragraph is written by a native or not.
But the problem is it does not even need that level to tell the difference of “kneading and kneaded”, and when to use “cool” and when to use “refrigeration”
I think the question is clearly of a common sense question. It does not need a native person to tell the difference.
However strongly a person may claim to have reached that level, it is jus not needed here and it would be a waste to use that level here. What are needed here are common sense and less obstinacy.
To the contrary, dumont. Only a native would know that it is okay to use those words the way they were used in this context. But enough already. I suggest you go through the postings of those two threads I posted previously, and see how some English natives feel about this issue. Good luck.
[修改时间: 2009-03-21 03:26 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
ysun
United States
Local time: 12:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
Kevin Yang wrote:
Hello, Steve and dumont,
Your discussion did remind me some similar debates we had in this forum in the past. I hope Yueyin can remember it well. The links that Steve introduced are helpful for us to open our eyes wider and see how other people think about this subject. I think one of the positive outcomes from your discussion is about the appropriate attitude and mindset a translator should have when commenting on other translator’s work and taking suggestions from other people.
As translators, we all have the passion to make our translation better. As nobody is perfect, I also do not believe there is a perfect translation. If we all can make effort to admire and appreciate on the good parts and make suggestions to improve other parts, we all can learn something from each other. By challenging, criticizing, or even ridiculing a person, one will have difficult time to bring any desirable result, even though he meant well. The constructive approach at this translator’s workplace is to suggest what you think in order to make a translation better.
Have a great weekend!
Kevin
我很同意 Kevin 的意见。他说的 debates 我当然没忘。从原则上讲，dumon把他的译文和别人的译文贴出来让大家讨论，当然是无可非议的，是应该支持的。 但关键是要实事求是地评价别人的译文，同时也要正视自己的不足之处。 对别人的意见要虚心听，别人讲得对的要虚心接受。绝不能先入为主，固执己见，认为自己的译文就是比别人强。 否则，往往会适得其反。自己的优点要让别人去讲。别人讲一句，要顶自己讲一百句。
应该说，那个所谓英国人的译文，确有不足之处。不过，那人的试卷中选，说明那PM认为在所有应试者中， 他的译文相对而言是较好的。 她强调那人是英国人，可能是为了堵别人的嘴。 老实说，对于这种难度的文件，那PM出价才RMB100元/千中文字，水平高的人根本理都不会理她。 难怪她也哀叹说实在找不到水平高的。 话说回来，别人的译文有无问题跟自己的译文是否合格，那完全是两码事儿。
上次中译英比赛Paul Hirsh 获奖之后，尽管dumont发帖指出了 Paul 译文中的问题，但我认为，即使 Paul 的译文有不足之处，那也影响不了他的获奖资格。 他是以绝对领先的得分获奖的，如果说他不够资格，那么别的参赛者就更不够资格。 至于 Paul 是英国人还是法国人，那并不重要。重要的是译文水平如何。
古人曰，“满招损，谦受益”，确实很有道理。 以前曾有人两次参赛均落选而被人奚落。其实参赛落选是很正常的事情，一般情况下不会被人奚落。 那人之所以被人奚落就是因为他平时吹自己吹得太厉害了，故而引起别人反感。
以前这里还有人在参加中国国内的翻译大赛落选后，就以点评的名义对获奖者的译文评头论足，甚至对评委的资格表示怀疑。 我认为这种做法都不可取。
| | | |
ysun
United States
Local time: 12:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
Steve 提供的链接，可以让我们看看native English speakers 是如何看待我们 non-native English speakers 的。这很有好处。通常，大部分美国翻译社都要求中译英必须由 native English speakers 来做。不过，有些专业性很强的资料，他们也不得不找我们这样的 non-native English speakers 来翻译。虽然我们不应妄自菲薄，但也应该有自知之明，看到自己的短处。唯有以勤补拙，付出加倍努力才能提供让用... See more Steve 提供的链接，可以让我们看看native English speakers 是如何看待我们 non-native English speakers 的。这很有好处。通常，大部分美国翻译社都要求中译英必须由 native English speakers 来做。不过，有些专业性很强的资料，他们也不得不找我们这样的 non-native English speakers 来翻译。虽然我们不应妄自菲薄，但也应该有自知之明，看到自己的短处。唯有以勤补拙，付出加倍努力才能提供让用户满意的译文。
上个月一家翻译社要求我修改几篇被用户拒了的中译英专利。其中有两篇的确翻得很差，但另两篇似乎还可以。 我一看就知道后两篇是懂专业的人翻译的。 后来翻译社说那是由一位在美国获得博士学位且在美国公司工作多年的人翻译的，可照样还是被拒了。我下面随便举出两句句子，大家可以看看问题在哪里：
原文：
在本发明的另一个实例中，使用化学蚀刻方法在玻璃表面上形成所述表面纹理。 合适的化学蚀刻玻璃的方法是本领域普通技术人员已知的。
原译文：
In another example of the invention, the surface texture was formed on glass by chemical etching. Suitable chemical etching methods are known to ordinary technical personnel in this field.
我老实不客气地说，下面链接贴出的那篇所谓“翻译正规无错误，全文流畅，属于全部用专业数据库校对”的译文，按照美国许多翻译社或客户的标准，是肯定会被拒掉的。
http://www.chinafanyi.com/wenku/index.asp?action=article_show&id=1751 ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Kevin Yang
Local time: 10:59
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 谢谢你以自己客观的观察帮助我们的翻译解惑。 | Mar 21, 2009 |
乐音，
你的评说非常到位，字字语重心长，谢谢你以自己客观的观察帮助我们的翻译解惑。你冷静的思考和分析问题的方法给年轻人树立了样板。
另外，我要告诉你和大家一个好消息，我趁着美国房市低迷不振，在加州Marina市买了一幢全新的房子，上个周末乔迁新居，经过一周的整理，生活和工作已经一切恢复正常。
祝周末快乐！
Kevin
| | | |
ysun
United States
Local time: 12:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
|
|
|
nigerose
China
Local time: 01:59
Chinese to English
+ ...
ysun wrote:
位且在美国公司工作多年的人翻译的，可照样还是被拒了。我下面随便举出两句句子，大家可以看看问题在哪里：
原文：
在本发明的另一个实例中，使用化学蚀刻方法在玻璃表面上形成所述表面纹理。 合适的化学蚀刻玻璃的方法是本领域普通技术人员已知的。
原译文：
In another example of the invention, the surface texture was formed on glass by chemical etching. Suitable chemical etching methods are known to ordinary technical personnel in this field.
问题主要出在时态上，was应该改为is。
另外example最好改成embodiment；ordinary technical personnel in this field改成专利中惯用的those of ordinary skill in the art.
至于native与non－native谁更地道的问题，
比如说，外国的汉学家难道汉语水平不如一般中国人？
又举例说，我目前在翻译美国的一个专利。该专利专业用词很不统一，同一概念用好几个词语来表达，而且在同一句话、同一个表格中都如此。感觉作者(肯定是美国人)爱怎么写就怎么写，真想给他一巴掌。
| | | |
原文：
在本发明的另一个实例中，使用化学蚀刻方法在玻璃表面上形成所述表面纹理。 合适的化学蚀刻玻璃的方法是本领域普通技术人员已知的。
In another example of this invention, chemical etching was used on the glass to produce the above mentioned surface texture. Suitable methods for chemical etching of glass are already known to general technical staff in this field.
[Edited at 2009-03-21 10:11 GMT]
| | | |
| Yueyin好，宝贝丫头好！ | Mar 21, 2009 |
ysun wrote: 原文： 在本发明的另一个实例中，使用化学蚀刻方法在玻璃表面上形成所述表面纹理。 合适的化学蚀刻玻璃的方法是本领域普通技术人员已知的。 原译文： In another example of the invention, the surface texture was formed on glass by chemical etching. Suitable chemical etching methods are known to ordinary technical personnel in this field. 我老实不客气地说，下面链接贴出的那篇所谓“翻译正规无错误，全文流畅，属于全部用专业数据库校对”的译文，按照美国许多翻译社或客户的标准，是肯定会被拒掉的。 http://www.chinafanyi.com/wenku/index.asp?action=article_show&id=1751
我不喜欢“surface"的位置，我认为该词注重于在玻璃上；我也不喜欢“was", 我认为该词是不必要的；我还不喜欢”ordinary", 该词缺少尊重, "general" or "common"随意一些。句子的结构不是很舒畅，有点怪。
| | | |
| 我认为既然是翻译，既然母语与第二语的相持不下， | Mar 21, 2009 |
每份专利就应该由至少两名翻译做。(英汉)由母语为汉语的人翻译好，然后由母语为英语的人翻译回来，对照。反之亦然。
而且翻译所得的报酬应该每人翻倍。
今天天气好，我说梦话来着。
[Edited at 2009-03-21 15:16 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
别先忙着布置里面，赶紧种菜种花。
Kevin Yang wrote:
乐音，
你的评说非常到位，字字语重心长，谢谢你以自己客观的观察帮助我们的翻译解惑。你冷静的思考和分析问题的方法给年轻人树立了样板。
另外，我要告诉你和大家一个好消息，我趁着美国房市低迷不振，在加州Marina市买了一幢全新的房子，上个周末乔迁新居，经过一周的整理，生活和工作已经一切恢复正常。
祝周末快乐！
Kevin
| | | |
wherestip
United States
Local time: 12:59
Chinese to English
+ ...
Thanks guys for all the great comments - my thoughts exactly, except I felt ten times more indignant, being the main target of all the clumsily-worded acrid remarks.
Hey, Kevin. Congratulations on the new house! You've got it all made.
[Edited at 2009-03-22 13:50 GMT]
| | | |
ysun
United States
Local time: 12:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
nigerose wrote:
问题主要出在时态上，was应该改为is。
另外example最好改成embodiment；ordinary technical personnel in this field改成专利中惯用的those of ordinary skill in the art.
有专利翻译经验的人一眼就能看出问题来。所以我前几天说 nigerose 有实力，并非是随便说说。原文中的“实例”其实是指“实施例”。在描述实施例(embodiment)时，通常用现在时态；而在描述实例(example)时，通常用过去时态。“本领域普通技术人员”应该译为 “those of ordinary skill in the art” 或 "those having ordinary skill in the art"。 没有专利翻译经验的人也许会觉得原译文没什么问题。此外，原译者还把“本发明的第一方面提供一种叠层膜”译为 “On one hand, the present invention is to provide a laminated film”。"on one hand" 这种说法也不符合专利的规矩。这句话应该译为 "The first aspect of the present invention is to provide a laminated film"。
不过，说句公道话，用户把这篇译文给拒了，有点太严厉，因为从技术角度来讲，翻译还是比较准确的。原译者的主要问题是不懂专利格式，而且英语还不够好，原译文让人一看就知道是由 non English speaker 翻译的。
| | | |
| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29] > |
Login to reply/comment 
