Mar 11, 2010 23:50
14 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Greek (Ancient) term
Διὰ τί πάντες ὅσοι περιττοὶ γεγόνασιν ἄνδρες ἢ κατὰ φιλοσοφίαν ἢ πολιτικὴν ἢ ποί
Greek (Ancient) to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
philosophy
Διὰ τί πάντες ὅσοι περιττοὶ γεγόνασιν ἄνδρες ἢ κατὰ φιλοσοφίαν ἢ πολιτικὴν ἢ ποίησιν ἢ τέχνας φαίνονται μελαγχολικοὶ ὄντες
what does it acctualy mean?
Is it what i think? "Why it is that all who have turned out to be outstanding men of science or politics or literature or the arts are apparently of melancholic temperament."
what does it acctualy mean?
Is it what i think? "Why it is that all who have turned out to be outstanding men of science or politics or literature or the arts are apparently of melancholic temperament."
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Mar 12, 2010 13:11: d_vachliot (X) changed "Language pair" from "Greek to English" to "Greek (Ancient) to English"
Proposed translations
+3
8 hrs
Selected
Why is it that all those who have become eminent men in philosophy or politics or poetry
... or the arts are clearly of melancholic temperament?
melancholy or atrabilious: having a preponderance of black bile
φαίνονται είναι would be "appear to be"; φαίνονται όντες means "are manifestly" - this is a distinction found in some writers, and it probably applies here.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2010-03-12 08:37:39 GMT)
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melancholic or atrabilious
melancholy or atrabilious: having a preponderance of black bile
φαίνονται είναι would be "appear to be"; φαίνονται όντες means "are manifestly" - this is a distinction found in some writers, and it probably applies here.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2010-03-12 08:37:39 GMT)
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melancholic or atrabilious
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
16 mins
For what reason are all men [driven] insane who according to philosophy or politics or literature or
For what reason are all men [driven] insane who according to philosophy or politics or literature or the arts appear to be geniuses [of great genius]. Compare a similar quote by Aristotle, cited here: http://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php?topic=9564.0
"Driven insane" seems to capture the verbal aspect of the perfect γεγόνασιν, if I am reading it correctly.
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Note added at 19 mins (2010-03-12 00:09:25 GMT)
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Oops. Obviously, this sentence is a question. I failed to punctuate with a question mark. Please amend.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2010-03-12 13:33:30 GMT)
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Note the further discussion on the thread I provided: At long last, harrisimo02, thanks to the kindness of an old friend (Prof. Edwin Floyd at the University of Pittsburg), we're able to give you the text of "Aristotle" that you requested.
Introducing his 30th "problem," the author raises the question, Διὰ τί πάντες ὅσοι περιττοὶ γεγόνασιν ἄνδρες ἢ κατὰ φιλοσοφίαν ἢ πολιτικὴν ἢ ποίησιν ἢ τέχνας φαίνονται μελαγχολικοὶ ὄντες "Why it is that all who have turned out to be outstanding men of science or politics or literature or the arts are apparently of melancholic temperament."
[In those days, "melancholic" (literally, "black-biled") meant pretty much what we mean by "depressive" or "manic-depressive" today.]
Boiling the sentence down to its core, we have the statement that Seneca focused on, and that you wanted to discover: All who have turned out to be outstanding men are apparently of melancholic temperament. "Apparently" here seems synonymous with "manifest."
I originally posted this at 01:00 GMT, not sure why it is not listed here.
"Driven insane" seems to capture the verbal aspect of the perfect γεγόνασιν, if I am reading it correctly.
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Note added at 19 mins (2010-03-12 00:09:25 GMT)
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Oops. Obviously, this sentence is a question. I failed to punctuate with a question mark. Please amend.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2010-03-12 13:33:30 GMT)
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Note the further discussion on the thread I provided: At long last, harrisimo02, thanks to the kindness of an old friend (Prof. Edwin Floyd at the University of Pittsburg), we're able to give you the text of "Aristotle" that you requested.
Introducing his 30th "problem," the author raises the question, Διὰ τί πάντες ὅσοι περιττοὶ γεγόνασιν ἄνδρες ἢ κατὰ φιλοσοφίαν ἢ πολιτικὴν ἢ ποίησιν ἢ τέχνας φαίνονται μελαγχολικοὶ ὄντες "Why it is that all who have turned out to be outstanding men of science or politics or literature or the arts are apparently of melancholic temperament."
[In those days, "melancholic" (literally, "black-biled") meant pretty much what we mean by "depressive" or "manic-depressive" today.]
Boiling the sentence down to its core, we have the statement that Seneca focused on, and that you wanted to discover: All who have turned out to be outstanding men are apparently of melancholic temperament. "Apparently" here seems synonymous with "manifest."
I originally posted this at 01:00 GMT, not sure why it is not listed here.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Jim Tucker (X)
: (sorry, answer got messed up; reposting) Gegonasin and melangcholikoi are in two different clauses, you reversed perittoi and μελαγχολικοὶ ; περιττοὶ = famous or illustrious; κατὰ = "in" or "by virtue of"
14 hrs
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neutral |
Joseph Brazauskas
: I must echo Jim's remarks.
4 days
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+1
14 hrs
For what reason are all who have become eminent through
For what reason do all who have become eminent through science or politics or literature or the arts manifest depression [melancholy]?
See my previous discussion. This is my amended answer. Notice that γεγόνασιν is translated as a perfect, which I respectfully believe is a better option than Mr. Tucker recommends.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2010-03-12 16:15:47 GMT)
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Note also that my reply takes a different approach than Dylan's to how to translate μελαγχολικοὶ ὄντες. As I have noted in the reference provided, Seneca cites it as dementia, while in a contemporary setting we would translate it as "depression." If this citation were to be used in a work on psychology, I think this information would support the claim that Aristotle gave criteria to diagnose a primitive manifestation of depressive disorders.
See my previous discussion. This is my amended answer. Notice that γεγόνασιν is translated as a perfect, which I respectfully believe is a better option than Mr. Tucker recommends.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2010-03-12 16:15:47 GMT)
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Note also that my reply takes a different approach than Dylan's to how to translate μελαγχολικοὶ ὄντες. As I have noted in the reference provided, Seneca cites it as dementia, while in a contemporary setting we would translate it as "depression." If this citation were to be used in a work on psychology, I think this information would support the claim that Aristotle gave criteria to diagnose a primitive manifestation of depressive disorders.
Example sentence:
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit. - Seneca, citing this statement.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
: Now you're cookin with gas. Not sure what this adds to Dylan's answer that couldn't be handled in a comment, though.
11 mins
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Good point. I didn't notice the similarities when I reposted.
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neutral |
Joseph Brazauskas
: I disagree with your rendering of φιλοσοφίαν. It would be acurate of the Pre-Socratics but not of most other ancient philosophy. Even Seneca was primarily intersted in ethics, despite composing the Naturales Quaestiones. But 'depression' is excellent.
4 days
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16 hrs
Why do all men who have become outstanding either in philosophy or politics or poetry or arts seem t
Or 'of an impulsive disposition', somewhat less likely 'of a cranky disposition'. πάντες ὅσοι implies 'all men whosoever, as many men who have...' and τέχνας includes both what we would call '(fine) arts' (e.g., sculpture) and 'crafts' (e.g., pottery). ὄντες is here a circumstantial participle, equivilent to an infinitive.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2010-03-12 16:22:57 GMT)
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The complete rendering is:
Why do all men who have become outstanding either in philosophy or politics or poetry or arts seem to be of a melancholic disposition?
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Note added at 16 hrs (2010-03-12 16:22:57 GMT)
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The complete rendering is:
Why do all men who have become outstanding either in philosophy or politics or poetry or arts seem to be of a melancholic disposition?
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