Apr 17, 2011 19:32
13 yrs ago
Spanish term

Una viejita tzeltal de las de antes (tzec con listones y blusa blanca de india)

FVA Not for points Spanish to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature Mayan references from Chiapas
As I read it, a description of:

«a little old Mayan lady, [from the tzeltal group], [one of those you hardly see anymore] (wearing a ribboned tzec [meaning, not the Zodiac symbol from the Mayan calendar or 5th month of the Mayan year but a traditional article of clothing?] and an East India style white blouse from the ranches)

Context is author's description of the chaos during the zapatista uprising back in 1994. This little old lady comes to warn a ranch owner (on whose ranch she works) that the rebels have killed one of his cows.

In this case, I'm just looking for guidance about the tribes and clothing. I'll have other questions later about regionalisms found in this chapter. Thanks in advance.

Discussion

offset (asker) Apr 18, 2011:
Altogringo, thanks for the visual. It definitely helps. In fact, I'll include it with the complete manuscript when submitting to book publishers. I think a book like this, especially one so short (250 pp.) would benefit from illustrations.

Gilla, Jessica and Marjoy: now that I've had time to sleep on that chapter, I think each of you makes a good point. A little local color is a good thing, not a drawback. In fact, I've strategically left some foreign-ness in the English translation. For instance, the use of the 24-hour format. I'll use Tzeltal, maybe footnote or otherwise qualify it, and capitalize the term. As for how to describe the skirt and blouse, now that we've rough-hewn the raw material, that should be just a matter of what my wife (a Colombian) would call "carpintería". Thanks, team.
Jessica Noyes Apr 18, 2011:
I would keep "Tzeltal" also. When I read a book in my native English, I run across new terms all the time, say, "the Midlands," or "Tarheel" and meeting new terminology is part of the reading experience. I imagine that Spanish-speaking readers from Spain reading your source text, would also have only a vague idea of what Tzeltal refers to. So to expand on the McLuhan image I think you have to leave lots of bits of random sparkle in the work, not turn it into a pane of transparent glass.
Evans (X) Apr 18, 2011:
I see your problem, but I would keep Tzeltal for local colour even if it is unfamiliar to the reader, although it needs a capital in English. A little old Tzeltal woman, as Marjory suggests. But I wouldn't use Tzec (too much baffling local colour) but something more descriptive; and for the last bit maybe "a traditional white blouse" - using 'traditional' to convey that it is what the indigenous people wear or used to wear.
offset (asker) Apr 18, 2011:
Thanks for confirming that I was heading in the right directin. But please remember that my potential audience of English-speaking readers (not necessarily North Americans) will have a very vague idea of even basic Mexican geography, much less subtle tribal distinctions. They can't be counted on to know that Mexico is really the United States of Mexico, and that Chiapas is just one of those states, that it borders on Guatemala, and that Mexico is not located Central America, etc. If the word Tzeltal occasions even a momentary furrowing of the brow, then I haven't done my job as a translator. Marshall McLuhan likened it to stained glass: not light ON but light through. My text should draw as little attention to itself as possible, right?

Proposed translations

6 hrs

A little old Tzeltal woman (one of those you hardly see anymore) wearing a ribboned/beribboned tzec

tzec/skirt and a native-style (Indian-style) white (homespun) blouse

I lived with the Tzeltals and the women's skirt had many rows of ribbons. The "india" would be Indian/indigenous/native.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2011-04-18 04:15:48 GMT)
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OK, I accept your use of Mayan, but not "East India". How about a typical/traditional white blouse and (be)ribboned skirt?
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Reference comments

23 hrs
Reference:

Visual of Tzetzal woman from Wiki

Does this help for Offset to see what may be involved since Marjory lives there?
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Marjory Hord : lived... many years ago when such clothing was very common
1 hr
Thank you kindly for the agree. Nothing beat your kind of first hand experience and it doesn't look like it's gone too far out of style there.
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