Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Italian term or phrase:
corbeilles a forma di stella
English translation:
star-shaped flower beds
Added to glossary by
Lorraine Buckley (X)
Jun 28, 2012 13:03
11 yrs ago
Italian term
corbeilles a forma di stella
Italian to English
Art/Literary
Architecture
Ornamental gardens in Italy
Again, a known word, apparently used with a novel meaning.
Description of changes made to an ornamental garden in the late 1800s, following Victorian tastes
"Di gusto vittoriano sono anche le quattro *corbeilles a forma di stella* sul retro della statua
di Giove."
I have a photograph which does not show me 'the back view' of Jupiter's statue. But seen from the front, there are four (flower) beds behind him with box hedge trimmed in a more or less star shape.
Considering that corbeil/corbeille in English appears to be used only for carved fruit/flower baskets etc ornamenting statues, whereas in French it collocates with all sorts of things as a basic container (litter bin, flower basket, wicker basket, stock market trading floor (!! rogue container??), do you think I am safe translating this as 'star-shaped flower beds' ?
Anyone heard of corbeille used in Italian or French with this sort of extension of the 'basket/container' meaning?
Many thanks
Description of changes made to an ornamental garden in the late 1800s, following Victorian tastes
"Di gusto vittoriano sono anche le quattro *corbeilles a forma di stella* sul retro della statua
di Giove."
I have a photograph which does not show me 'the back view' of Jupiter's statue. But seen from the front, there are four (flower) beds behind him with box hedge trimmed in a more or less star shape.
Considering that corbeil/corbeille in English appears to be used only for carved fruit/flower baskets etc ornamenting statues, whereas in French it collocates with all sorts of things as a basic container (litter bin, flower basket, wicker basket, stock market trading floor (!! rogue container??), do you think I am safe translating this as 'star-shaped flower beds' ?
Anyone heard of corbeille used in Italian or French with this sort of extension of the 'basket/container' meaning?
Many thanks
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +1 | star-shaped flower beds or star-shaped flower corbeilles |
Ema Chlevickaite
|
| 4 +1 | star-shaped corbeilles |
Yvonne Gallagher
|
Proposed translations
+1
19 mins
Ema Chlevickaite
Native in: Lithuanian
Works in: English to Lithuanian, Lithuanian to English, Italian to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
star-shaped flower beds or star-shaped flower corbeilles
(Fine Arts & Visual Arts / Architecture) Architect a carved ornament in the form of a basket of fruit, flowers, etc.
The French also had another tradition of tiered floral display--the corbeille, [19] which the British borrowed and translated into the floral basket. In Humphry Repton's Red Book of 1791 for Courteenhall, in Northamptonshire, is a plan for a "parterre for flowers in small beds" and a "corbeille for flowers" in Lady Wake's flower garden. [20] Repton's use of the term corbeille certainly suggests a familiarity with French sources, possibly with illustrations in French publications such as Georges Louis Le Rouge's Detail de nouveaux jardins a la mode (1776-1788), which depicts the round corbeille in the duc de Biron's garden, or Plate 369 in Andre Jacques Roubo's L'Art du menuisier (Fig. 1). Here, the highly ornamental plant container, held up by a complex quatrefoil trelliswork and spilling over with flowers, forms an architectural ziggurat that is not unlike the theatrical flower beds of the landscape garden.
The French also had another tradition of tiered floral display--the corbeille, [19] which the British borrowed and translated into the floral basket. In Humphry Repton's Red Book of 1791 for Courteenhall, in Northamptonshire, is a plan for a "parterre for flowers in small beds" and a "corbeille for flowers" in Lady Wake's flower garden. [20] Repton's use of the term corbeille certainly suggests a familiarity with French sources, possibly with illustrations in French publications such as Georges Louis Le Rouge's Detail de nouveaux jardins a la mode (1776-1788), which depicts the round corbeille in the duc de Biron's garden, or Plate 369 in Andre Jacques Roubo's L'Art du menuisier (Fig. 1). Here, the highly ornamental plant container, held up by a complex quatrefoil trelliswork and spilling over with flowers, forms an architectural ziggurat that is not unlike the theatrical flower beds of the landscape garden.
Reference:
Note from asker:
| yes, thanks gerda, this is exactly right. I have just come to another part in the text where it is clear that the corbeilles are flower beds, at ground level, and not the raised basket one might expect from the word! |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: sorry, but thereference you've posted makes it clear that the corbeille is "the highly ornamental container" or "floral basket" NOT the flower bed which is the parterre!o
2 hrs
|
| agree |
Rosanna Palermo
3 hrs
|
| agree |
philgoddard
: Agree with your second suggestion, not your first.
5 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks, Gerda. Conclusion being, the correct answer in this instance is 'star-shaped flower beds' (not corbeil/les)"
+1
46 mins
Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Ireland
Native in English
Ireland
right word, right place. everytime
Native in: English (Variants: US, Canadian, Irish, UK) 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
31
star-shaped corbeilles
I believe in English that the corbeille is a sculptured basket in relief or a sculpted basket style container. I don't think it relates to the flower beds but rather is a bas-relief on back of statue or possibly a container (hidden from your view)
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Note added at 47 mins (2012-06-28 13:51:38 GMT)
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meant sculpted basket above
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Note added at 48 mins (2012-06-28 13:52:29 GMT)
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http://www.memidex.com/corbeil
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Note added at 49 mins (2012-06-28 13:53:31 GMT)
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can also be spelt as CORBEIL
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Note added at 51 mins (2012-06-28 13:55:47 GMT)
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http://pinterest.com/andreastieff/glorious-porcelain-corbeil...
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Note added at 56 mins (2012-06-28 14:00:11 GMT)
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http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O1-corbeil.html
corbeil
A Dictionary of Architecture and Landscape Architecture | 2000 | JAMES STEVENS CURL | 272 words | Copyright
corbeil, corbeille.
1. Basket-like architectural member containing flowers and fruit, often in relief or placed on pedestals as terminal ornaments.
2. Capital in the form of a basket over the heads of canephorae or corae, varying in size and type.
3. Campana or calathus.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2012-06-28 16:00:53 GMT)
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in Gerda's reference, the flowerbed is the parterre whereas the corbeille is the ornamental container! perhaps the parterre is star-shaped to match an adjacent corbeille? Is there a bit missing from your text?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parterre
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Note added at 3 hrs (2012-06-28 16:08:14 GMT)
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Perhaps they meant to use star-shaped Parterre!
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Note added at 20 hrs (2012-06-29 09:36:04 GMT)
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HI Lorraine. Thanks for you detailed note. The point I'm making is that "corbeille" meaning "flowerbed" is incorrect in English. I couldn't find even one ghit with that meaning for the word. So, whatever the situation in Italian (and my belief is that the word has been used incorrectly there also but I'm not a native Italian speaker so not going to argue that point), the error would be compounded if you leave "corbeille" to mean a flowerbed. I think it's preferable to use the correct word "parterre" or simply leave it as "flowerbed".
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Note added at 20 hrs (2012-06-29 09:48:10 GMT)
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another ceramic corbeille and another French (but Italianate) garden showing box-hedged parterres
http://www.frenchgardening.com/item.html?pid=ACDE1
http://www.frenchgardening.com/visitez.html?pid=311067840114...
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Note added at 1 day46 mins (2012-06-29 13:50:11 GMT)
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One final point. "parterre" usually means the ornamental garden as a whole but can also indeed mean individual beds, not just the arrangement within a garden.
http://www.scrabble-word-finder.com/definition-of-parterre.h...
http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/parterre
and the Eng-French translation
http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/flowerbed
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2012-06-28 13:51:38 GMT)
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meant sculpted basket above
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2012-06-28 13:52:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.memidex.com/corbeil
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 49 mins (2012-06-28 13:53:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
can also be spelt as CORBEIL
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 51 mins (2012-06-28 13:55:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://pinterest.com/andreastieff/glorious-porcelain-corbeil...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 mins (2012-06-28 14:00:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O1-corbeil.html
corbeil
A Dictionary of Architecture and Landscape Architecture | 2000 | JAMES STEVENS CURL | 272 words | Copyright
corbeil, corbeille.
1. Basket-like architectural member containing flowers and fruit, often in relief or placed on pedestals as terminal ornaments.
2. Capital in the form of a basket over the heads of canephorae or corae, varying in size and type.
3. Campana or calathus.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-06-28 16:00:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
in Gerda's reference, the flowerbed is the parterre whereas the corbeille is the ornamental container! perhaps the parterre is star-shaped to match an adjacent corbeille? Is there a bit missing from your text?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parterre
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2012-06-28 16:08:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Perhaps they meant to use star-shaped Parterre!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2012-06-29 09:36:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
HI Lorraine. Thanks for you detailed note. The point I'm making is that "corbeille" meaning "flowerbed" is incorrect in English. I couldn't find even one ghit with that meaning for the word. So, whatever the situation in Italian (and my belief is that the word has been used incorrectly there also but I'm not a native Italian speaker so not going to argue that point), the error would be compounded if you leave "corbeille" to mean a flowerbed. I think it's preferable to use the correct word "parterre" or simply leave it as "flowerbed".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2012-06-29 09:48:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
another ceramic corbeille and another French (but Italianate) garden showing box-hedged parterres
http://www.frenchgardening.com/item.html?pid=ACDE1
http://www.frenchgardening.com/visitez.html?pid=311067840114...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day46 mins (2012-06-29 13:50:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
One final point. "parterre" usually means the ornamental garden as a whole but can also indeed mean individual beds, not just the arrangement within a garden.
http://www.scrabble-word-finder.com/definition-of-parterre.h...
http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/parterre
and the Eng-French translation
http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/flowerbed
Note from asker:
| Thanks for all these refs. Indeed my question comes from the fact that the stone carving is the "standard" meaning. I think the Italian author has taken liberties or the Italian meaning has become extended. Parterre is the perfect example: this French word is used by the Italian author (and you) to mean individual flower beds, ("Nel periodo primaverile i parterres del giardino delle Grotte erano ricolmi di..." whereas in English it means the "insieme" of these geometrical flower beds as you can see clearly from your Wikipedia ref and many stately homes. The sentence I found on a much later page, which confirms my hypothesis (and Gerda's answer) is this "Le corbeilles in forma stellare erano contornate di bosso, che ne copriva il cordolo di delimitazione." Author may or may not be using the word 'corbeille' correctly, but without any doubt, is talking about these box-trimmed flower beds. |
| This conversation could go on forever, but we have now reached the 24 hours and I am awarding points for star shaped flower beds, I have no intention of using the word corbeil/le, not correct in English in this meaning, nor the word parterre, which as I pointed out, in English means " An ornamental flower garden having the beds and paths arranged to form a pattern", not the individual beds". Indeed the Italian text does later use 'parterre' meaning flower bed (I use the latter) whereas it describes several 'gardens' as 'giardini', which I am translating as parterre when I can see that this is what they are! If languages didn't borrow from one another, life would deprive us of 'il night', 'lo smoking', 'il parking', and we Brits would blush over the meaning we give to 'bimbo'!! |
| as a final contribution, see this page for the use of parterre in English (a link I got from the encyclopaedia Britannica article on parterres) http://library.wur.nl/speccol/intro.html |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Barbara Carrara
: Yes, Sir! Here's another ref.: Corbeil - A representation in stone of a basket of flowers. (ODO)
45 mins
|
|
Thanks Barbara:-)
|
Discussion