Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
contrôle des votes
English translation:
voting control
Added to glossary by
Louisa Tchaicha
Jan 21, 2013 02:39
11 yrs ago
French term
Tunisia
contrôle des votes
French to English
Bus/Financial
Finance (general)
publication volontaire
Hello,
"Dans cette étude, les analystes s'intéressent aux sociétés où la propriété du capital et le contrôle des votes sont séparés"
firms where capital ownership and voting control?
Thank you
"Dans cette étude, les analystes s'intéressent aux sociétés où la propriété du capital et le contrôle des votes sont séparés"
firms where capital ownership and voting control?
Thank you
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | voting control |
B D Finch
|
| 5 +1 | controlling majority of voting rights |
Daryo
|
| 4 | control of votes |
rkillings
|
| 3 -1 | vote monitoring |
idomyjob
|
| 4 -2 | Majority of votes |
Salih YILDIRIM
|
Proposed translations
+1
6 hrs
Selected
voting control
Would a company be monitoring the voting patterns of its own board members? It is more likely that an outside organisation would be interested in monitoring voting patterns for companies where there is a separation of capital ownership and voting rights, e.g. to see what, if any, divergences there were between the interests of the owners and the votes cast.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-01-21 09:22:46 GMT)
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That "example sentence" slipped in by accident. Please ignore, as I can't delete it.
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Note added at 15 hrs (2013-01-21 18:07:38 GMT)
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www2.lse.ac.uk/finance/people/.../ferreira_oneShareOneVote.pdf
by RENEE ADAMS - 2008
" ... ownership is that a divergence between voting control and cash flow rights can .... discuss some of the difficulties in properly measuring the degree of separation ... "
www.hks.harvard.edu/m-rcbg/Events/.../RPP_5-5-05_Gompers.pd...
by PA Gompers - 2003
" ... effect of voting control which leads managers to underinvest in growing the firm ...... Fama, Eugene, and Michael Jensen, 1983, Separation of Ownership and ..."
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Note added at 1 day7 hrs (2013-01-22 10:00:38 GMT)
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As Daryo has misread my answer and misrepresented it in his comments, I think I should clarify so that nobody else makes the same error. My explanation: "Would a company be monitoring the voting patterns of its own board members? ..." was specifically to counter the translation as "monitoring", suggested by inoussa&Abdou, and to show why this was completely illogical. I was pointing out that the source text referred to outside analysts who would be interested in [monitoring] companies in which there was a separation between voting control and capital ownership, but that the meaning of the phrase in question was voting control and not directly about the activities of those analysts.
Daryo's understanding of the source text seems to be the same as my own, though I think one should avoid conflating control with "majority" voting rights as control can, in some circumstances, be exercised by a strategically powerful minority.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-01-21 09:22:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
That "example sentence" slipped in by accident. Please ignore, as I can't delete it.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2013-01-21 18:07:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
www2.lse.ac.uk/finance/people/.../ferreira_oneShareOneVote.pdf
by RENEE ADAMS - 2008
" ... ownership is that a divergence between voting control and cash flow rights can .... discuss some of the difficulties in properly measuring the degree of separation ... "
www.hks.harvard.edu/m-rcbg/Events/.../RPP_5-5-05_Gompers.pd...
by PA Gompers - 2003
" ... effect of voting control which leads managers to underinvest in growing the firm ...... Fama, Eugene, and Michael Jensen, 1983, Separation of Ownership and ..."
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Note added at 1 day7 hrs (2013-01-22 10:00:38 GMT)
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As Daryo has misread my answer and misrepresented it in his comments, I think I should clarify so that nobody else makes the same error. My explanation: "Would a company be monitoring the voting patterns of its own board members? ..." was specifically to counter the translation as "monitoring", suggested by inoussa&Abdou, and to show why this was completely illogical. I was pointing out that the source text referred to outside analysts who would be interested in [monitoring] companies in which there was a separation between voting control and capital ownership, but that the meaning of the phrase in question was voting control and not directly about the activities of those analysts.
Daryo's understanding of the source text seems to be the same as my own, though I think one should avoid conflating control with "majority" voting rights as control can, in some circumstances, be exercised by a strategically powerful minority.
Example sentence:
.g. to
Note from asker:
| Thank you |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: Whilst this is along right lines, I dislike using "control" in English - it's often OK in French, but in English it makes me think of policemen and air traffic
3 hrs
|
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It is control, but I also dislike the phrasing, which seems to sacrifice clarity of style for brevity and jargon. However, the phrase is widely used.
|
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| neutral |
Daryo
: it's not about that; it's about who's got the majority of voting rights – they’re not necessarily the ones with most capital invested. //"voting control" is not about "monitoring voting patterns" wrong explanation
4 hrs
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That is precisely what "voting control" is about. I specifically mentioned "separation of capital ownership and voting rights" i.e. they are not held by, or in the same proportions by, the same persons. You are misrepresenting my answer.
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| agree |
Wolf Draeger
: Can work, but also dislike "control" here.
1 day 3 hrs
|
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Thanks Wolf. It is about having control over and through voting rights and, though I don't personally like the phrase, it is widely used including in academic studies and books.
|
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you everyone for all your help."
-1
50 mins
vote monitoring
Tthis would be very close to your default choice
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Note added at 1 hr (2013-01-21 03:46:54 GMT)
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I am glad if that helped.
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Note added at 1 hr (2013-01-21 03:46:54 GMT)
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I am glad if that helped.
Note from asker:
| Thank you |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
9 hrs
|
| disagree |
Daryo
: it's not about that; it's about who's got the majority of voting rights – they’re not necessarily the ones with most capital invested.
10 hrs
|
| disagree |
Wolf Draeger
: With Daryo.
1 day 9 hrs
|
+1
11 hrs
controlling majority of voting rights
How the ownership of the company's capital is distributed between shareholders is not necessarily an indication of who has the effective control of a company (i.e. the controlling majority of voting rights)
Doesn't happen very often, but in some companies those who have the controlling majority of voting rights are not those who have invested the most capital in the company. In such cases you often get a class of shares with voting rights but no capital invested, or a class of shares with capital invested but no voting rights whatsoever.
The votes in question are votes at the General Assembly of Shareholders, i.e. this is about who has the controlling majority of voting rights - more than 50 % of voting rights; in some cases of very diluted ownership 10 % of voting rights can be enough to have the controlling majority.
"... The holder of shares in the capital of a company carrying in aggregate over 50% of the voting rights, in normal circumstances, has control of that company. The pattern of control may differ from company to company where there are several classes of shares each with different voting rights. ..."
[http://www.law-office.demon.co.uk/art minority-1.htm]
Doesn't happen very often, but in some companies those who have the controlling majority of voting rights are not those who have invested the most capital in the company. In such cases you often get a class of shares with voting rights but no capital invested, or a class of shares with capital invested but no voting rights whatsoever.
The votes in question are votes at the General Assembly of Shareholders, i.e. this is about who has the controlling majority of voting rights - more than 50 % of voting rights; in some cases of very diluted ownership 10 % of voting rights can be enough to have the controlling majority.
"... The holder of shares in the capital of a company carrying in aggregate over 50% of the voting rights, in normal circumstances, has control of that company. The pattern of control may differ from company to company where there are several classes of shares each with different voting rights. ..."
[http://www.law-office.demon.co.uk/art minority-1.htm]
Note from asker:
| Thank you |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
B D Finch
: Your explanation is more or less the same as my answer. However, I do think "majority" can be misleading. Control can be exercised by ad hoc coalitions. You are misrepresenting my answer. I specifically excluded "monitoring" as the translation.
3 hrs
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not at all - "contrôle des votes" is not about "monitoring" shareholder's voting patterns /completely wrong parallel with "monitors/observers" at political elections/ - it's about who's got the effective control of the company/voting majority
|
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| agree |
Wolf Draeger
: Or just majority (share) voting rights (excl. controlling).
22 hrs
|
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Thanks!
|
-2
17 hrs
Salih YILDIRIM
United States
United States
Specializes in field
United States
Meticulous, scrupulous, curious work!
Native in: Turkish (Variant: Standard-İstanbul ) 
Works in: Turkish to English, English to Turkish, French to Turkish, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Majority of votes
Imho
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Kim Metzger
: Et contrôle?
2 mins
|
| disagree |
Cetacea
: Incomplete answer.
12 hrs
|
| neutral |
Wolf Draeger
: You have the right idea, but I agree with Cetacea.
17 hrs
|
| neutral |
Daryo
: in the right direction, but should be more precise
17 hrs
|
1 day 19 hrs
control of votes
Word order as in French. Why? Because this sentence is transparently an illusion to the thesis of "separation of ownership from control" famously propounded by Berle and Means in a classic book published in 1932 (see link).
So, for parallelism, stick with "ownership of capital" vs "control of votes".
So, for parallelism, stick with "ownership of capital" vs "control of votes".
Reference comments
1 day 10 hrs
Reference:
Voting rights, controlling interest and voting control
Some defs and refs on voting rights, voting control and controlling interest.
From Inc.com (http://www.inc.com/tools/corporate-share-voting-rights.html)...
Corporate Share Voting Rights
The Corporate Share Voting Rights are the rights and restrictions attaching to the Class “A” Voting and the Class “B” Non-Voting shares in the capital of a corporation. The Corporate Share Voting Rights set out whether a particular class of shares in the capital stock of a company are voting or non-voting, whether the shares are entitled to receive dividends and such other provisions as the price per share in the event of a redemption of the shares by the company.
Investopedia def of voting right (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/votingright.asp#axzz2IhX...
The right of a stockholder to vote on matters of corporate policy and who will make up the board of directors. Voting often involves decisions on issuing securities, initiating corporate actions and making substantial changes in the corporation's operations.
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlling_interest):
Controlling interest in a corporation means to have control of a large enough block of voting stock shares in a company such that no one stock holder or coalition of stock holders can successfully oppose a motion. In theory this could mean that controlling interest would be 33.4% or 50% of the voting shares plus one.
Investopedia def of controlling interest (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/controllinginterest.asp#...
When one shareholder or a group acting in kind holds a high enough percentage of ownership in a company to enact changes at the highest level. By definition, this figure is 50% of the outstanding shares or voting shares, plus one. However, controlling interest can be achieved with less than 50% ownership of the stock if that person/group owns a significant proportion of the voting shares, because in many cases, not every share carries a vote in shareholder meetings.
Use of voting control in financial news (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20121211005961/en/Libe... and economics (http://econpapers.repec.org/article/eeeirlaec/v_3a23_3ay_3a2...
Vernimmen Fr def of contrôle (http://www.vernimmen.net/html/glossaire/definition_controle....
Le contrôle d'une société est la faculté d'y exercer le pouvoir. La personne physique ou morale qui le détient est en mesure de décider de la gestion de l'entreprise, notamment à travers le choix des dirigeants. Le contrôle s'obtient par la détention des droits de vote lors de l'assemblée générale de la société. On distingue le contrôle de droit, qui découle de la détention de plus de 50% des droits de vote, du contrôle de fait, conséquence de la détention d'un Bloc minoritaire suffisamment important pour être en situation d'imposer son pouvoir à la société.
From Inc.com (http://www.inc.com/tools/corporate-share-voting-rights.html)...
Corporate Share Voting Rights
The Corporate Share Voting Rights are the rights and restrictions attaching to the Class “A” Voting and the Class “B” Non-Voting shares in the capital of a corporation. The Corporate Share Voting Rights set out whether a particular class of shares in the capital stock of a company are voting or non-voting, whether the shares are entitled to receive dividends and such other provisions as the price per share in the event of a redemption of the shares by the company.
Investopedia def of voting right (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/votingright.asp#axzz2IhX...
The right of a stockholder to vote on matters of corporate policy and who will make up the board of directors. Voting often involves decisions on issuing securities, initiating corporate actions and making substantial changes in the corporation's operations.
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlling_interest):
Controlling interest in a corporation means to have control of a large enough block of voting stock shares in a company such that no one stock holder or coalition of stock holders can successfully oppose a motion. In theory this could mean that controlling interest would be 33.4% or 50% of the voting shares plus one.
Investopedia def of controlling interest (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/controllinginterest.asp#...
When one shareholder or a group acting in kind holds a high enough percentage of ownership in a company to enact changes at the highest level. By definition, this figure is 50% of the outstanding shares or voting shares, plus one. However, controlling interest can be achieved with less than 50% ownership of the stock if that person/group owns a significant proportion of the voting shares, because in many cases, not every share carries a vote in shareholder meetings.
Use of voting control in financial news (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20121211005961/en/Libe... and economics (http://econpapers.repec.org/article/eeeirlaec/v_3a23_3ay_3a2...
Vernimmen Fr def of contrôle (http://www.vernimmen.net/html/glossaire/definition_controle....
Le contrôle d'une société est la faculté d'y exercer le pouvoir. La personne physique ou morale qui le détient est en mesure de décider de la gestion de l'entreprise, notamment à travers le choix des dirigeants. Le contrôle s'obtient par la détention des droits de vote lors de l'assemblée générale de la société. On distingue le contrôle de droit, qui découle de la détention de plus de 50% des droits de vote, du contrôle de fait, conséquence de la détention d'un Bloc minoritaire suffisamment important pour être en situation d'imposer son pouvoir à la société.
Reference:
http://econpapers.repec.org/article/dijrevfcs/v_3a7_3ay_3a2004_3ai_3aq2_3ap_3a123-164.htm
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Daryo
: "Le contrôle d'une société est la faculté d'y exercer le pouvoir."
13 mins
|
Discussion
"où (1)la propriété du capital et (2)le contrôle des votes sont séparés" is more than enough.