Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

verbale Entgleisungen

English translation:

any unguarded/ comments

Added to glossary by David Williams
Jan 24, 2013 16:16
11 yrs ago
8 viewers *
German term

verbale Entgleisungen

German to English Bus/Financial Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
Context:

'Bewahren Sie vor allem in hitzigen Debatten einen kühlen Kopf und lassen Sie sich zu keinen verbalen Entgleisungen oder unwahren Aussagen hinreißen.'

In employee guidelines for the use of social media.

* Sentence or paragraph where the term occurs: See above
* Document type: Employee guidelines for the use of social media
* Target audience: Employees
* Country and dialect (source): German
* Country and dialect (target): American English
Change log

Jan 24, 2013 16:23: Steffen Walter changed "Field" from "Other" to "Bus/Financial"

Discussion

784512 (X) Jan 27, 2013:
category I'd advocate moving this to IT or law, given that we've clarified this term needs a little more than a discussion of meaning, but rather intent of the author. The winning term is very appropriate for the IT/legal context but as others have said, it may be different in others.
David Williams (asker) Jan 25, 2013:
Edith, I believe that what Cilian was getting at, was that "imho" had been used without having been understood (not by Rose, I hasten to point out!)
Edith Kelly Jan 25, 2013:
Cilian h means humble = in my humble opionion
784512 (X) Jan 24, 2013:
another tactic There are a couple of (imho, two) good responses here, but to really capture the source you may want to use two adjectives,
"any unguarded or inappropriate comments".
I'd avoid verbal/similar because of the association (rightly or wrongly) with spoken language.
I also think the source could do with further extrapolation and insight based on internet (or, Internet, for the US) culture.

Example:
If I write "Sharron from marketing has big ( . )( . )" on my Twitter, this is an unguarded and inappropriate comment. Probably not an insult though - at least, I'm probably meaning to compliment Sharron. Probably also not a slip of the tongue or similar, since I really did mean to say it. Probably not strictly "verbal" as most understand it - since it's the little emoticon that's most offensive. What it is, however, is unguarded and inappropriate....

Proposed translations

+7
10 mins
Selected

any unguarded comments

Do not allow yourself to be drawn (sidetracked) into making any unguarded comments or untruthful statements.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unguarded



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Note added at 16 mins (2013-01-24 16:33:29 GMT)
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As this appears in 'employee guidelines', it may well be a reference to confidentiality, i.e. not giving away company secrets or harming the brand.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-01-24 18:37:18 GMT)
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David, is there any indication in your text that this advice is proffered to employees posting on social media sites and identifying themselves as such?
I have translated similar guidelines in the past, and the chief concern of the employer was that the company should not brought into disrepute or put in a situation where it could be held liable.
The wording of this document needs to reflect these considerations.
Peer comment(s):

agree 784512 (X) : Best because 1) not referring to speaking in any way 2) correct register, needs to be formal 3) also needs to encompass other kinds of comments e.g. inappropriate smileys ;-P 4) needs to range from the mildly inappropriate to the obscene, which this does.
2 hrs
agree David Moore (X)
2 hrs
agree Patrick Hubenthal : "Unguarded" is good.
2 hrs
agree Steffen Walter : Yes, this is better - it covers all the bases and is formal enough for employee guidelines. I also agree with Rose's comments here and in the discussion box.
2 hrs
agree Lirka
2 hrs
agree Sanjay Kesharwani : Duden (7. Auflage) also says, Entgleisung = Geschmacklosigkeit, taktlose Äußerung
3 hrs
disagree Lonnie Legg : Rose's interesting comments notwithstanding, "unguarded/unvorsichtig" doesn't match Duden's def. of Entgleisung: "Geschmacklosigkeit, taktlose Äußerung".
3 hrs
Thank you for taking a special interest in my contributions. http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/journalism/52540...
agree Cilian O'Tuama : And I reckon "unguarded" covers tactless/flippant/offensive/unüberlegt...
3 hrs
agree Cetacea
17 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks!"
-2
8 mins

don't lose your train of thought

How I would say it.

Of course, in conversation, I might say, my train of thought just got derailed.

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Note added at 8 mins (2013-01-24 16:25:38 GMT)
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Of course, this leaves off the 'verbal' but as you are talking about debates, you might not need that.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Steffen Walter : I'd reserve this for the first part ("Bewahren Sie ... einen kühlen Kopf...").
2 mins
neutral Edith Kelly : with Steffen
41 mins
disagree Lonnie Legg : "Entgleisen" ist nicht dasselbe wie "vom Thema abkommen".
3 hrs
disagree Cetacea : "verbal entleisen" means "to lose it", not just your train of thought.
17 hrs
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+1
9 mins

insults / insulting language

"... do not use insulting language ..."

The "verbal" aspect should be clear from the context.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Edith Kelly : much too strong IMO
40 mins
I don't think so. From my German native speaker standpoint, "verbale Entgleisungen" are the equivalent of personal attacks, hence "insults" (or similar) appears to be a valid translation.
agree philgoddard : Certainly the case in this article, which has a great headline: http://de.nachrichten.yahoo.com/fdp-mann-erntet-shitstorm-fü...
1 hr
Yes, that's a good example.
neutral polyglot45 : for me this is "running off at the mouth", talking without thinking first, saying things best left unsaid in the heat of the moment. May not be insulting. Could be tactless or indiscreet
1 hr
Thank you but I do think there's a bit more to an "Entgleisung" than what you described. And there's a fine (often "blurred") line between being tactless and/or insulting (comments might qualify as either of the two but also both).
neutral 784512 (X) : 2nd 'favorite' submission, but imho this needs to cover more than just insults. Insults to me are more in the mind of the speaker/easily defined than things that can be misinterpreted. So a little too strong, imho.
2 hrs
Yes, your example given in the discussion box is a case in point indeed.
neutral Cilian O'Tuama : Hi Steffen - I reckon "insulting" is too restrictive here. Source text is broader than that (and IMO includes e.g. "embarrassing").
3 hrs
... which is why I've agreed with Andrew's answer.
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-1
10 mins

verbal slip-ups

I'd use something along these lines. "slips of the tongue", "verbal blunders" could work, or maybe reword and use "getting/becoming verbally derailed" (though I don't suppose that is a very common turn of phrase...)
Peer comment(s):

disagree David Moore (X) : Verbal is not written...not in my dictionary, anyway, so might well be misunderstood...
2 hrs
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12 mins

(verbal) gaffes

gaffe
/gaf/
Noun
An unintentional act or remark causing embarrassment to its originator; a blunder: "an unforgivable social gaffe".
Synonyms
faux pas - blunder - mistake
Peer comment(s):

agree Nicole Schnell
22 mins
agree Edith Kelly : 10 classic Joe Biden verbal gaffes | Articles | Home prdaily.com/.../10_classic_Joe_Biden_verbal_ga... 16.08.2012 – The vice president is taking flak for a remark he made this week, prompting us to recall some of his finer misspea
36 mins
neutral Steffen Walter : Too weak IMHO. "Verbale Entgleisungen" are more than just gaffes, which are limited to the "embarrassing" rather than the "attacking/insulting" aspect.
45 mins
neutral philgoddard : Agree with Steffen - and your reference simply proves that the word "gaffe" exists in English, which we know.
1 hr
agree BrigitteHilgner
1 hr
disagree 784512 (X) : This is the wrong register for formal communication imho, and such "gaffes" may not be verbal in the way most understand it. Further, "gaffe" to me sounds like the employee will "apologize" with a little "oh, silly me!" and all is forgiven. With Steffen.
2 hrs
disagree David Moore (X) : Sorry, ntext, but I don't see you CAN make "verbal gaffes" on social media, for reasons adequately explained elsewhere.
2 hrs
verbal: of, relating to, or consisting of words (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/verbal)
disagree CMFTrier : This seems a little too informal for the context.
1 day 20 hrs
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+2
15 mins

embarrassing/tactless/inconsiderate (language)

I don't think it's necessarily as strong as "insulting," though of course it could be.

If not for the need to work in the "unwahren Aussagen," I'd probably say "Don't say something you'll regret later." But as it is:

"Don't get so carried away that you say something untrue or embarrassing."
Peer comment(s):

neutral Edith Kelly : not really spot on, mainly the "language" part
35 mins
Thanks, Edith. "(Language)" is only included to make this work as a glossary entry; I'm not actually recommending David use the word in his translation.
agree Lonnie Legg : cf. Duden re Entgleisung: "Geschmacklosigkeit, taktlose Äußerung"
3 hrs
Thanks, Lonnie!
agree Cilian O'Tuama : "Don't say something you'll regret later" is probably what I'd say too. Andrew's solution it probably better here though.
3 hrs
Thank you, Cilian. I have to agree -- Andrew hit it nicely.
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-2
19 mins

slip of the toungue

don't let your tongue slip and say anything that is untrue (or that you don't mean)

suggestion..

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Note added at 20 mins (2013-01-24 16:37:21 GMT)
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should be 'tongue' in the response, obviously
Peer comment(s):

disagree Edith Kelly : that's a "Versprecher", something totally different
32 mins
unintentionally misspeaking is not far off the mark here imo. Also, since the context is Employee guidelines for the use of social media in American English, saying what comes naturally is probably more important than spot on exactness. Thank you, anyway.
disagree Cetacea : A slip of the tongue is, as Edith points out, a "Versprecher", so it's way too weak. You can get into serious trouble for a "verbale Entgleisung", which is definitely not the case for a slip of the tongue.
17 hrs
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54 mins

don't let your tongue run away with you

however heated the debate, keep a cool head, don't let your tongue run away with you and be careful what you say
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-4
1 hr

to drop a clanger

Imho
Peer comment(s):

disagree Kim Metzger : I wouldn't recommend Australian slang in this context.
14 mins
disagree Edith Kelly : well Kim, also Irish, but certainly not here in this context
59 mins
disagree Cilian O'Tuama : Another clanger :-) Out of interest, what does the "h" in your "imho" stand for? That's a legit Q, or not?
4 hrs
disagree Cetacea : Nothing to add to what Kim and Cilian point out.
16 hrs
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3 hrs

(avoid comments) of an offensive nature

my two ha'pence worth
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+1
17 hrs

flaming

Looking at how the term is actually used in German in your particular context and comparing similar English-language material, I wonder if this term might be suitable here.

You presumably have the entire text of the guidelines. Are any of the other decent suggestions you have received so far covered there in some other way?

Bei sehr umstrittenen Diskussionsthemen kommt es in den elektronischen Diskussionsforen leicht zum sogenannten `flaming'. Mit `flaming' werden schriftliche Wutausbrüche gegen andere Person bezeichnet, bei denen aggressive Äußerungen, ungerechtfertigte Anschuldigungen und Schimpfwörter verwendet werden.

Besonders in ,Newsgroups, aber auch in anderen Bereichen des Internets, kommt es leicht zu heftigen Emotions-Eskalationen. Neue Ideen und Meinungen zu äußern bedeutet oft, in den Widerspruch von Altem zu treten. Dadurch entsteht schnell eine konfliktbelade Atmosphäre. Die Anonymität senkt zusätzlich die Hemmschwelle, andere vor den Kopf zu stoßen. Bei Newsgroups handelt es sich um eine öffentliche Darstellung mit einer anonymen Mitleserschaft im Hintergrund. Sie birgt das Risiko, vor einer prinzipiell weltweiten Öffentlichkeit bloßgestellt zu werden. Dies ruft besondere Verteidigungsmechanismen hervor. Bei der Beteiligung von mehreren Personen kann es so leicht zu einem Aufschaukeln der Gefühle kommen. Nicht unwichtig ist dabei das Tempo. Es kommt schneller zu Fehlinterpretationen und Mißverständnissen (vgl. Funke und Krüger, 1997a).
Die Gegner begraben sich unter Schimpfwörtern und ungerechtfertigten Anschuldigungen. Im Internet werden diese aggressiven Äußerungen gegen Personen als `flaming' bezeichnet. Das 'Flaming' wird auch genutzt um eine Diskussion anzuheizen oder andere Nutzer zum Spaß zu provozieren. In realweltlichen Begegnungen würden Äußerungen wohl nicht in dieser Schärfe verwandt werden. Es kommt auch zu frenetischem Jubel, der in der realen Welt als übertrieben und unangemessen empfunden würde. Die persönliche Identität des Absenders und Empfänger ist aufgelöst. Höflichkeitsformen werden ignoriert, der Sinn für Eigenverantwortung und der Respekt vor sozialen Normen geht verloren. Die Computer-vermittelte Kommunikation läßt Personen impulsiv und unberechenbar werden. Sie neigen zu extremen Entscheidungen. "Denn die Elemente, die an Kontexte und Personen erinnern, sind schwach oder fehlen, deshalb brauchen sich diejenigen, die die Entscheidungen treffen, weniger an Konventionen gebunden zu fühlen und weniger um die Konsequenzen ihrer Entscheidungen besorgt zu sein" (Sproull und Kiesler, 1991 zit. nach: Mantovani, 1994, S.159).
Boehringer (1995, S.32) stellt im Gegensatz dazu fest, daß die Computer-vermittelte Kommunikation von hoher Achtung und Respekt gegenüber abweichenden Meinungen geprägt ist, und verbale `Entgleisungen' nicht toleriert werden. Viele Nutzer empfinden 'Flames' als lästig oder sogar als Regelverstoß. Bei den Online-Kommunikationsformen ist das 'Flaming' nicht so ausgeprägt. Der scheinbar direkte Kontakt mit dem Gegenüber bildet hier wahrscheinlich eine Hemmschwelle (vgl. Kneer, 1994).
http://www.student-online.net/Publikationen/278/

Flaming
1. Be wary of “flaming” – getting involved in an online argument by making thoughtless or nasty remarks in a message. Because they are written and context-free, negative comments tend to be amplified, which means that minor insults or criticisms seem much harsher. You need to be careful when formulating online messages – it is not the same as in-person or telephone interaction.
http://olc.spsd.sk.ca/netiquette.htm

Abusive or disruptive behaviour is not allowed on BBC blogs. This includes:
Flaming: This means posting something that's angry and mean-spirited.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/moderation.shtml

Be wary of flaming. Avoid provocative language; it can be hard to judge tone in the written word.
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/dit/documents/factsheets/fsin01.pdf

Keep in mind that it is sometimes difficult to communicate the right tone online or in an e-mail message. An e-mail conversation can escalate into insult and hostility, commonly called flaming, if you hit the wrong tone. If you are participating in a discussion, think carefully about how you use humour or other writing techniques.
http://rc.lsuc.on.ca/pdf/kt/67_6370_OnlineActivitySocialMedi...

Do not abuse others even in response to abuse (Sometimes known as flaming)
http://www.sarh.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/15-item-SAR...

Gap’s social media policy a guide for other companies
Some subjects can invite a flame war. Be careful discussing things where emotions run high (e.g. politics and religion) and show respect for others’ opinions.
http://www.prdaily.com/Main/Articles/Gaps_social_media_polic...

§ 2.4 Verbale Entgleisungen (sogenannte "Flames")
Gegen die Regeln verstößt, wer Äußerungen tätigt, die obszön, vulgär oder diskriminierend sind oder andere Personen bzw. Personengruppen bedrohen, nötigen, verleumden oder beleidigen. Wir bei SSBC legen besonderen Wert auf einen freundlichen Umgangston.
§ 2.5 Persönliche Beleidigungen (personal insults)
Wie schon in Punkt 2.4 erwähnt, werden persönliche Angriffe oder Beleidigungen nicht toleriert. Bei einem Verstoß gegen diese Regel können besonders harte Strafen folgen, bis hin zur Sperrung des Users.
http://www.ssbm.org/thread.php?threadid=12&sid=138c073a59c36...
Peer comment(s):

agree Cetacea : My favorite, but you'd probably have to explain it for the "older generation" among employees, so it might work best in combination with Andrew's suggestion.
5 mins
Thanks. Yes, explanations are indeed common, e.g. So-called ‘flaming’ i.e. the use of impolite terms or language, including offensive or condescending terms http://www.cityofbristol.ac.uk/freedom-of-information/colleg...
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34 mins

verbal lapses

Might fit here as they happen in the spur of the moment

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Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-01-26 04:03:03 GMT)
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Many of our ideas sound good in isolation until we put them in a sentence...

Here's my attempt to pull the whole sentence together:

"Keep a clear head, particularly in heated debates and avoid overstepping verbal boundaries or making less than truthful assertions."
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Reference comments

6 hrs
Reference:

Definition

"Im übrigen ist eine "verbale Entgleisung" als ein "Sich-im-Ton-Vergreifen" zu verstehen."

http://mundmische.de/bedeutung/24501-verbale_Entgleisung
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Cilian O'Tuama : which I think Andrew's answer covers nicely, oder? // Klar, eine 100%ige Übereinstimmung finden wir nie.
7 mins
fast, aber nicht ganz: unguarded comment = gedankenlos, unbedacht, vorschnell etc; eine „Entgleisung” ist (meinem Empfinden nach) ein bisschen schwerwiegender und ernstzunehmender
agree Edith Kelly
18 hrs
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