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Mar 30, 2013 16:57
11 yrs ago
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Dutch term

Wiebeldagen

Dutch to English Bus/Financial Human Resources in an employment contract
U heeft recht op 25 vacantie/snipperdagen per jaar plus 2 zogenaamde 'wiebeldagen'

I am considering days off for snipperdagen

From a Dutch (Breda) contract

TIA
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 mental health days
4 +1 flex days
4 +1 R&R (Rest and recuperation)
4 duvet days
References
duvet days
Change log

Mar 30, 2013 17:15: writeaway changed "Field" from "Law/Patents" to "Bus/Financial" , "Field (specific)" from "Law: Contract(s)" to "Human Resources" , "Field (write-in)" from "Employment" to "in an employment contract"

Discussion

Barend van Zadelhoff Apr 1, 2013:
Frank, I don't think this was the point.

The point was our misunderstanding of the perspective, whether you do something for your mental health (sounds good) or whether you need to admit that something is wrong with your mental health (sounds bad) and take a day off.

You may claim there is no stigma attached to mental health, still many people and members of many ethnic groups don't like themselves or their family members to be considered 'mentally ill' (something wrong with their mental health)

It is true that efforts are made to remove the stigma but it is still there and still will be there for a long time possibly

Once you see 'mental health days' as days meant to do something for your mental health, it sounds good
Frank van Thienen (X) Apr 1, 2013:
no stigma indeed, there is no stigma attached to the use of the term "mental health" in this or any other context. Even in the context of severe mental health issues, i.e. where a psychiatrist gets involved, institutionalisation, etc, even then, recent advertising campaigns have made an attempt to remove any form of stigma.
Barend van Zadelhoff Apr 1, 2013:
Kitty, I myself discovered this only just now as well!
Babylonian confusion of tongues ...

So it seems to be a matter of perspective.

If you opt for the 'purpose perspective', you call it a mental health day (this would work with respect to 'wiebeldagen' and indeed 'baaldagen' and all other days related to a 'negative' emotional state)

If you opt for the perspective of the emotional state of the employee you could call it a personal day and possibly give it other names, see 'leave benefits' in Frank's reference
Kitty Brussaard Apr 1, 2013:
@Barend You've convinced me by providing this reference :-). As I said, I would personally feel hesitant to take up a 'mental health day', but apparently the term is actually being used within this type of context and clearly in a more neutral or even positive way than I initially assumed.
Barend van Zadelhoff Apr 1, 2013:
Kitty, possibly we understand 'mental health day' incorrectly.

It may be a day that you take FOR THE SAKE OF your mental health.

How to Take a Mental Health Day

Look at this:

Every one gets tired of their job now and then (gets fed up with - balen [:-)]). Sometimes it is important to take a day off * just to keep yourself fresh *. When this happens, you may consider taking a mental health day. This could qualify as a sick day, a personal day [:-)], or even a vacation day. The following will help you take a mental health day.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2085782_take-mental-health-day.html
Kitty Brussaard Apr 1, 2013:
Annual leave entitlement And I absolutely agree with Barend that '25 vakantie-/snipperdagen per jaar' means 'an annual leave entitlement of 25 days'. See also http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipperdag and http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vakantie.
Kitty Brussaard Apr 1, 2013:
Duvet days / skip days Although 'personal days' is probably too generic to cover the concept of 'wiebeldagen', I would be very hesitant to claim a 'mental health day' if I were an employee :-) I personally feel this term is too stigmatic. Therefore, 'baaldagen' might be the best solution. JurLex proposes 'skip days' or 'duvet days', which I think might work both in the given context.
Barend van Zadelhoff Mar 31, 2013:
what you do is imo at least confusing

- you mix up regular annual leave entitlement with the leave benefits from your reference, be it maternity leave, personal day off, mental health day or you name it
- 'vakantiedagen/snipperdagen' constitute a unit, an employee may use his whole budget as 'vakantiedagen' and then will be away from work during one, or if possible more, continuous period of time or they can use part of it for incidental leave = snipperdagen = taking leave in 'snippets' = taking separate days off throughout the year - the asker should know this
- you put a 'personal day off' in the category 'regular annual leave entitlement', which is incorrect for two reasons:
a) a 'snipperdag' is something quite different from 'a personal day off'
b) unlike a 'snipperdag', a 'personal day off' is a leave benefit over and above the usual leave entitlement

nou jij weer :-)
Frank van Thienen (X) Mar 31, 2013:
no disagreement I don't see a disagreement, Barend. Sure enough, any leave entitlement, whatever you call it, is generally paid leave.
Barend van Zadelhoff Mar 31, 2013:
Frank, I disagree with you there


recht op 25 vakantie/snipperdagen per jaar = annual leave entitlement of 25 days

and the 'wiebeldagen/mental health days' , I use the phrase below, =

.. is paid leave over and above this annual leave entitlement.

here in the Netherlands you get an annual leave budget, part of it is, and is to be, used as 'holiday leave' (vakantiedagen) and another part of it is used as 'incidental leave' (snipperdagen)
Frank van Thienen (X) Mar 31, 2013:
snipperdag vs wiebeldag "snipperdag" in itself is already a long-standing term for a non-sick day, and it doesn't have to be for anything "unstable", or "mental health" related.
For that reason I'd be tempted to call a "snipperdag" a "personal day", retaining the positive feel, and use "mental health day" for "wiebeldag", retaining the "uncertain" or "unstable" connotation.
Frank van Thienen (X) Mar 31, 2013:
Unrecorded Time Off for Family/Personal Matters also sounds to me like a catch-all phrase for a non-sick day, for whatever reason.
Barend van Zadelhoff Mar 31, 2013:
I did not ask you whether is was a term suitable for posting as an answer, but just wanted to know what you think that it might refer to.

Yes, in several cases you could describe it as an 'unstable day' and this might well be the reason why it is called a 'WIEBELdag', if you see what I mean.
Frank van Thienen (X) Mar 31, 2013:
yes, considered... ... that one too, but the term is too long to be functional.
From my web search of 'wiebeldag' I'm getting the distinct impression it is an "unstable day", as in "I'm not feeling very stable today". If that is the case, Mental Health Day seems to be the better-fitting term, but I'd happily accept Personal Day as well. Why not submit it, Kitty?
Barend van Zadelhoff Mar 31, 2013:
I am not sure, but I don't expect there exists a generally accepted definition of 'wiebeldagen', it may well be regional use of language
I think we will have to make do with what we can find on the internet.
However, if someone feels like having a go at finding a more precise description, please go ahead

The good thing is that we already agree as far the general line is concerned
Barend van Zadelhoff Mar 31, 2013:
Frank, how do you understand this item in your reference:

Unrecorded Time Off for Family/Personal Matters

To me 'personal day off' sounds positive (celebration) rather than negative (under the weather)
Frank van Thienen (X) Mar 31, 2013:
context... Probably an unnecessary question, but can I assume that John doesn't have any more context?
The wording of "plus 2 zogenaamde 'wiebeldagen'" almost seems to indicate that there may be something somewhere? Is there a glossary in this text?
Frank van Thienen (X) Mar 31, 2013:
interesting... ... resource. On http://employeralliance.sg/toolkit/index.html under "Leave Benefits", they list a number of different reasons for a day off, but I agree that "personal day" is generic enough to fit almost any reason. Now, if only someone could provide us with a definition for "wiebeldag"???
Barend van Zadelhoff Mar 31, 2013:
I have already done half of the job, perhaps you would like to do the other half :-)
There is already some indication about 'wiebeldagen' below.

Personal day off:

This refers to a day off which employees may apply for to celebrate personal events, e.g. birthday, anniversary, etc.

This is commonly paid leave over and above their annual leave entitlement.

http://employeralliance.sg/toolkit/toolkit/tk2_18.html
Barend van Zadelhoff Mar 31, 2013:
Now, Kitty, before we can exchange ideas about this, I would like to ask you to give a description of
1) personal days
2) wiebeldagen
Kitty Brussaard Mar 31, 2013:
Personal days? Perhaps the 'wiebeldagen' could be covered by the more neutral/generic term 'personal days' (which seems to be widely used)?
Barend van Zadelhoff Mar 31, 2013:
Hello Frank, I would prefer it if you came up with a second answer after having considered what has been discussed before and using your knowledge of English and the Anglo-Saxon situation

what I do believe is the case here is that these 25 days are the total amount of leave per year/ regular leave and then there are these two additional days of leave that you can use when you have such an unforseen 'wiebeldag'

just think about what you could best call such a day of leave in English
I cannot find a clear description of 'wiebeldag' but people don't seem to be their usual selves on such a day
Barend van Zadelhoff Mar 30, 2013:
I do think that 'wiebeldagen' refers to something different, that is, they have 25 days of regular leave and two days of additional leave for possible 'wiebeldagen' (but even when they won't experience 'wiebeldagen' they most likely will be allowed to use these two additional days of leave)
I mean 'wiebeldagen' refers to days when an employee may feel a bit under the weather and then they can use these 'wiebeldagen'/ two add. for taking a day off

Heb nog wel last van zere kaken en een zere nek, maar volgens mij waren er meer mensen die hier last van hadden nadat ze gespannen waren. Ik dacht dat Ellen dat ook een keer geschreven had. Ik heb inderdaad ook 2 wiebeldagen achter de rug.

http://www.overspannen.nl/lotgenoten/toonbericht.asp?whichpa...

Vandaag een wiebeldag. Kennen jullie dat? Vanmiddag voerde de stress de boventoon wat resulteerde in huilen. Ik had al eens geschreven dat ik veranderingen moeilijk vind


I do think that you can compare 'wiebeldagen' with 'baaldagen', that is to say, that it is to do with the same principle

see the discussion at:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/human_resources/4...

Proposed translations

+2
8 hrs
Selected

mental health days

This seems to fit much better than my first response. Een 'wiebeldag' is een spontane vrije dag voor een andere rede dan ziekte. A 'mental health day' is the term I'm familiar with for such a non-sick day.
Indeed this is not to be confused with World Mental health Day, but I believe that in the context of employment, labour contracts, scheduling and sick days, there is not much danger of confusion.
The definition from Wikipedia: "In many workplaces throughout the First World, including but not limited to the United States and New Zealand, a mental health day is where an employee does not come to work and takes a sick day, not because of physical sickness, but because he or she does not feel like coming to work."
Example sentence:

... a mental health day is where an employee does not come to work and takes a sick day, not because of physical sickness, but because he or she does not feel like coming to work.

"Eighty-two percent of employees admit to taking "mental health days" to recover or recharge, according to a recent a poll by ComPsych, a provider of employee assistance programs."

Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health_day

http://hr.blr.com/HR-news/Benefits-Leave/Work-Life/Most-Workers-Take-a-Mental-Health-Day

Peer comment(s):
agree Barend van Zadelhoff : Perhaps not an exact equivalent (but then, we don't have very much to go by) but I do think it indicates/explains what these 'wiebeldagen' are about. // Excellent solution! :-) Darkness has changed into Light. :-)
1 hr
Thank you, Barend :-)
agree Kitty Brussaard
1 day 11 hrs
Thank you, Kitty :-)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "In the end I went with "personal days off" which is basically the same as "mental health days" "Personal days off" is maybe more neutral and less stigmatic than "mental health days" - even though that is the terminology used. I also drew attention to the difficulties of the word wiebeldag in an e-mail to the client."
+1
17 mins

flex days

Flex days (flextime, flexible time):
Wikipedia: Flextime (also spelled flexitime, flexi-time) is a variable work schedule, in contrast to traditional[citation needed] work arrangements requiring employees to work a standard 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. day.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2013-03-30 23:39:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

withdrawn: Flex days hebben te maken met een correctie vanwege een gewijzigd werkschema, dus is dit niet juist.
'wiebelen' deed me denken aan 'flexen', vandaar deze suggestie, maar Barend heeft gelijk (alweer).
Example sentence:

determine the type of compressed workweek schedule and the approved flex day

Reference:

http://hr.ucr.edu/worklife/professional/compressed_guide_non_exempt.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flextime

Peer comment(s):
agree Ellen van Dobben de Bruyn : Well found!
41 mins
bedankt Ellen, maar helaas is het toch niet juist.
neutral Barend van Zadelhoff : see your 'mental health day' :-)
5 hrs
gelijk heb je. Ik stel voor dat je mental health day dus als antwoord suggereert.
Something went wrong...
+1
2 days 14 hrs

R&R (Rest and recuperation)

Rest and recuperation.

At boarding school we were permitted one day off each term without having to be sick. This was called R&R. although the reference is from the military, but is used in H&R in the US.

'Rest and Recuperation (R&R) is provided to alleviate stress and promote the health and wellbeing of staff assigned to designated locations. R&R is neither additional annual leave nor financial compensation or incentive for the hardship of the duty station; rather it is an investment in productivity and wellness for those assigned to dangerous and stressful duty stations where regular absences from the stressful location is a necessary form of stress relief.' (see web reference below)

Reference:

http://https://info.undp.org/global/popp/hrm/Pages/Rest-and-Recuperation.aspx

Peer comment(s):
agree Kitty Brussaard : A good option but depending on context
9 hrs
neutral Barend van Zadelhoff : I would say highly dependent on context and not useful in this case but interesting and there are similarities
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 days

duvet days

I think 'duvet day' sounds a hell of a lot better than 'mental health day'. Duvet days are not just for when you have a hangover.

-----------------------*
'A Duvet day is a formal allowance of time off given by some employers, most commonly in the United Kingdom and United States.

It can be stipulated formally in a contract of employment and is considered part of the remunerations package along with holiday allowance. The term has also since become used by people to reference taking a day off work for no normally accepted reason (such as mild sickness, grievance or holiday) even if they have no official duvet day entitlement with their employer.

It differs from holiday allowance in that no prior notice is needed. Employees receive an allocation of days where if they do not want to go to work for any reason they can use a duvet day.

Originally given to employees by UK public relations company Text100 in 1995, it has grown in popularity as some companies aim to address the changing work-life climate where people work longer hours.' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvet_day )

----------------------------*

'A paid day's work in which the employee is allowed to stay at home for rest and relaxation.' (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/duvet-day.html )

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 days (2013-04-04 17:44:53 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

'duvet days, n, buzzword; a day when employees have right to stay in bed instead of going in to work, no prior booking required.'

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/02/99/e-cyclo... )
Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvet_day

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/duvet-day.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral Barend van Zadelhoff : It is just a matter of perspective: http://www.ehow.com/how_2085782_take-mental-health-day.html , and 'wiebeldagen' clearly indicates a mental problem.
3 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 day 20 hrs
Reference:

duvet days

See the information in the link below. Apparently, 'duvet days' might not be the most fitting translation for 'wiebeldagen', assuming that the latter are intended to grant employees some time off to reload the battery when they feel 'under the weather' rather than to recover from a hangover :-)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11899/Feeling-rough-...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Barend van Zadelhoff : Interesting
3 hrs
Dank :-)
agree writeaway : yet you agreed with erroneuos and quite amusing mental health days and so did the Asker. if this is correct, how can that be even remotely right?
1 day 2 hrs
I agreed with "mental health days" because it seems that the use of this terminology in similar contexts is more common than I initially assumed .... See for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health_day
agree Michael Beijer : 'Duvet day' is not only for when you have a hangover, and sounds a lot better than 'mental health days'.
3 days 3 hrs
Something went wrong...
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