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ИТ-начинка

Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

земская губерния

English translation:

'zemskaya guberniya' (self-governed province)

Added to glossary by Oleg Lozinskiy
Apr 6, 2014 19:50
10 yrs ago
Russian term

земская губерния

Russian to English Social Sciences Government / Politics pre-Revolutionary Russian Empire
41 земская губерния (за исключением Курского губернского земства) и область войска Донского, вошедшего в [ Всероссийский Земский Союз].

This is from an article about wartime activity on the home front in the World War 1-era.

Does the mention of the Курская земская губерния (oddly enough, reversing the word order of this expression) mean these were province-level zemstvo bodies?
Proposed translations (English)
4 'zemskaya guberniya'
4 см.
3 self-governed province/governorate
3 -1 County
Change log

Apr 9, 2014 07:04: Oleg Lozinskiy Created KOG entry

Discussion

rtransr Apr 7, 2014:
My point exactly... I am glad to hear that I am not alone in this belief.
The Misha Apr 7, 2014:
I definitely wouldn't use zemskaya guberniya except maybe in a very targeted academic text, and even then in brackets, in italics and with a note. Otherwise, it's like leaving gazirovannaya voda unchanged instead of calling it seltzer and claiming it's all for the sake of cultural authenticity. It's also the same as using oblast for region (which I personally never do)--just how many honest Americans can you in good faith expect to know what that particular animal is? Not seeing the entire text, I'd say call it a self-governing province to distinguish it from the other kind and give that note explaining the difference.
rtransr Apr 6, 2014:
I am not sure here, but wouldn't it make more sense to use terminology that English natives are more familiar with?.... I mean, zemskaya guberniya means nothing to somebody who is not Russian. I understand the importance of keeping cultural relativity... But IMO, it is much more beneficial for the meaning of the text as a whole to use terminology that readers are familiar with and therefore can apply easily to the text and its context.
Therefore, would it be more beneficial for the text to use "county" instead of "zemskaya guberniya"?
Oleg Lozinskiy Apr 6, 2014:
And, may be, 'земская губерния' = ... ...'губернское земство'.

And the gist is that 41 + 'Donskoye Voysko' (except 'Kursk...') joined the 'All-Russian Zemstvo Union'.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/All-Russian Zemst...
Angela Greenfield Apr 6, 2014:
Олег +1 .
Oleg Lozinskiy Apr 6, 2014:
Gary, In my view, 'земская губерния' = 'губерния', в которой были организованы 'органы местного самоуправления' - 'земства'. Были и губернии, где 'земств' не было. Возможно, в Курской губернии законы местного самоуправления в тот период времени распространялись на уровень 'губернии', т.е. Курская губерния была 'самоуправляема' (в переводе, 'избирала себе начальников сама').

Proposed translations

26 mins
Selected

'zemskaya guberniya'

With a 'translator's comment' at the footnote.

Губернские земские учреждения

Раз в год в губернском городе происходил съезд депутатов от уездных земских собраний всей губернии под председательством губернского предводителя дворянства — это губернское земское собрание. Оно осуществляло общее руководство хозяйственными делами губернии. Для постоянного ведения этих дел оно избирало губернскую земскую управу из председателя и нескольких членов.

В губернское земское собрание, помимо гласных, входили местные представители ведомств. В губернских собраниях председательствовал губернский предводитель дворянства или иное лицо, установленное на эту должность губернатором.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Земство

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Note added at 47 мин (2014-04-06 20:37:34 GMT)
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Just another: http://books.google.ru/books?id=so0gddc0w3UC&pg=PA97&lpg=PA9...
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "But I'm going to translate "guberniya" as "province". Footnote 2 of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zemstvo was instrumental in my decision, pointing out as it did that not all provinces had zemstvos"
-1
2 hrs

County

I think "county" is the closest in meaning and functionality to the term in question.
Please see my discussion board entry for more details on and explanations for my position.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2014-04-07 03:01:43 GMT)
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What about "province"?
Peer comment(s):
neutral The Misha : I agree with you on principle but county as an administrative subdivision is smaller by an order of magnitude. Guberniya is a province or governorship (oblast in modern parlance) that could include dozens of your "counties".
3 hrs
I'll trust you on this. In this case, I move to suggest province: i just read up about it and it seems to be most relevant..., IMHO
disagree Igor Kondrashkin : "County" = "уезд"
10 hrs
Did you see my note before you disagreed?.....
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12 hrs

см.

“Земствo“ is an elective district council, while “губерния“ is simply “province“.
There were губернии without земства and губернии with земства.

Hence, you have a stark choice of either leaving it as "Zemskaia Gubernia" – which to an anglophone reader would mean less than "Chateau Margaux" to a Congolese pigmy – or adding a footnote: "a province comprising several elective districts". But to translate it with just one term – be it county, province, district, etc. – would be inaccurate.
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13 hrs

self-governed province/governorate

"Земский" means the province/governorate was self-governed rather than being governed from Moscow.

To me, "self-governed province" sounds better than "self-governed governorate", but "governorate" is in general a better way to describe the Russian "губерния".

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Note added at 13 час (2014-04-07 09:10:42 GMT)
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I would also recommend you to write "zemskaya guberniya" in italics and in brackets following the "self-governed province" when this term is introduced for the first time.
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