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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

to the doctor's / to the cleaner's...?

English answer:

's for a person's place of work

Added to glossary by Sheila Wilson
Oct 30, 2014 10:55
9 yrs ago
English term

to the doctor's / to the cleaner's...?

Non-PRO English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Hi...I have some doubts about this formulation.

The spoken language always says:

"I went to the doctor's...", I went tot he cleaner's

Is it with an apostrophe (as in to the doctor's surgery)...or something else?

And in a correct written form, do you write it so or do you simply write "I went to the doctor".

Thank you for clarifying!
Responses
4 +11 's for a person's place of work
4 +1 it is usual to omit the apostrophe in the written form
5 -1 Chez le docteur, chez le tinturier
References
Comment
Change log

Oct 30, 2014 11:07: writeaway changed "Language pair" from "French to English" to "English to French"

Oct 30, 2014 11:08: writeaway changed "Language pair" from "English to French" to "English"

Oct 30, 2014 13:20: acetran changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Nov 4, 2014 18:32: Sheila Wilson Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Noni Gilbert Riley, Phoenix III, acetran

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Discussion

AllegroTrans Nov 5, 2014:
@ Christine It gets worse than that - incorrect use of the apostophe is by no means limited to greengrocers - many so-called "professional" websites cannot even get it right.
Christine Andersen Nov 5, 2014:
I was referring to 'Eats(,) shoots and leaves' That is the title of a book by Lynne Truss, where she tries - with some sucess - to guide people through the use of commas for a start, and there is a chapter on apostrophes.
That is the first place I saw that kind of incorrect use of apostrophes referred to as a ´greengrocer´s apostrophe´. Just visit any market in the UK where fresh fruit and vegetables are sold...
AllegroTrans Nov 5, 2014:
When I said "omit the apostrophe" I meant "to the doctor" instead of "to the doctor's"
For the avoidance of all possible doubt on this subject, I am not advocating scrapping the apostrophe...
BdiL Nov 5, 2014:
More substantial. I wonder how one can "drop the apostrophe" in spoken form!!! Can anyone of you distinguish between workers and worker's, beyond the context that will lead us to discern the presence of an apostrophe?!
There are at least two commenters that say "keep the apostrophe at least in written form", that's where my stupor stems from. Where else?! This is a good involuntary pun! BTW, I am FOR keeping the apostrophe 100%!
BdiL Nov 5, 2014:
It's not clear to me whether Christine Andersen's "we drop the correct ones too" really means the apostrophes in cauliflower's and carrot's. Those are definitely incorrect (in her sentence), as plurals there must be cauliflowers and carrots. If she meant it as a pun, I am probably too stupid to understand it...
Christine Andersen Oct 31, 2014:
My age must be showing! I would keep the apostrophe, at least for a business where you get personal service.

I went to the greengrocers sounds like a whole trade union to me.
I went to the greengrocer´s
-- would mean the little shop on the corner, probably run by a single family even in these days.
( with cauliflower´s and carrot´s don´t ask me what and all the rest, I suppose...)
Sorry, I´ve had a long week and it´s not over yet, but we should not get so terrified of the so-called greengrocer´s apostrophe that we drop the correct ones too.
John ANTHONY Oct 30, 2014:
Just a smile... This question brought a smile to my face… because it reminded me of a recording by the late Anna Russell in which, as a celebrated stand-up comedian, she delivered a sketch called “Introduction to the concert”. She is actually introducing an artist who is to perform for a charity event, and replacing the “chairwoman” who is unwell. She says : “I’m sorry Mrs xxx could not be with us tonight, but she’s been in bed all week with the doctor…”. Of course, the audience laugh. She then says angrily : “I think you’re very unkind, she’s having a horrible time…” !!! Let’s bring a bit of humour in our industry !
Clive Phillips Oct 30, 2014:
Different registers "I went to the doctor's" is a more colloquial register and is appropriate therefore in written form for reported speech. "I went to the doctor" is a more formal register in written form.
If a dry cleaning shop is meant, "I went to the cleaner's" is perhaps suitable in written form for both reported speech and a more formal register. "I went to the cleaners" (no apostrophe) is, however, more common and acceptable in written form. "I went to the cleaner" would probably be understood as a visit to the person who cleans your home/block of flats. "I took him to the cleaners" in the figurative sense means I won a resounding victory over him.

Responses

+11
37 mins
Selected

's for a person's place of work

Really, you're talking about the doctor'S SURGERY/OFFICE (BrEng/AmEng), the cleaner'S SHOP... This is why you go to the bank (not to the bank's).

In the case of the doctor and dentist (and perhaps a few others) there can be an exception. You can go to the surgery for other reasons: ante-natal or post-natal care, to see a nurse or a dental hygienist, to collect a prescription... Or you can go there to be seen by the doctor/dentist personally. In the latter case, you do sometimes say that you go to the doctor/dentist (no apostrophe s). The implication in this case is that you're going TO SEE the doctor/dentist.

As so often in English, it's all about what we DON'T say or write :).
Peer comment(s):
agree Philippa Smith : Good explanation. And I'd say best avoid the no apostrophe, particularly in written English.
11 mins
Thanks Philippa and I agree with you
agree Victoria Britten : As Philippa says. You might sometimes see it without the apostrophe, but you'll never be wrong if you leave it in.
11 mins
Thank Victoria
agree John ANTHONY
39 mins
Thanks
agree Maria Fokin
48 mins
Thanks
agree Annie Rigler
52 mins
Thanks
agree Pierre POUSSIN
2 hrs
Thanks
agree Yvonne Gallagher
3 hrs
Thanks
agree dandamesh
10 hrs
Thanks
agree Yolanda Broad
2 days 15 hrs
Thanks
agree Rachel Fell : hadn't read through you answer when I added my note below
5 days
Thanks, Rachel :)
agree writeaway : I've never spoken an apostrophe in my entire life. My bad?
7 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I entirely agree as well. Thank you!!"
-1
9 mins

Chez le docteur, chez le tinturier

Idem pour églises, hôpitaux, écoles etc...
Keep the "'s" in written texts
Note from asker:
Hi, thank you for your input though if you read my post I am not asking for a translation into French - this is more more of a grammatical question in the English language.
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : I changed this to English monolingual. I don't see a word of French in the question....
4 mins
Neither do I!...;-)But see how extraordinarily good some are...
disagree Isabelle Cluzel : non seulement vous répondez à côté car il ne s'agit pas de traduction, mais en plus avec une faute d'orthographe
17 mins
I'm so glad that someone is so good!...Shame on me who learns so much from your...excellency! ;-)
Something went wrong...
+1
37 mins

it is usual to omit the apostrophe in the written form

I say it is "usual" but it is not wrong to include the apostrophe. However, I disagree with the asker's statement that the spoekn form always includes the apostrophe. It is just a matter of personal prference.
Peer comment(s):
agree Yvonne Gallagher : yes agree, not "always" in spoken form but more common probably.
3 hrs
thanks
neutral Rachel Fell : not in my English ;-) i.e. I don't omit the apostrophe (but how do you have an apostrophe in speech anyway?)
3 days 15 hrs
I am puzzled...// well you do in reported speech; glad to hear you support the Apostrophe Society, I am a life member...
neutral writeaway : Just how does one pronounce the apostrophe in spoken English?
7 days
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

4 days
Reference:

Comment

"I went to the doctor's" means you went to the place where the doctor sees patients;you could also say "I went to see the doctor". If you say "I went to the doctor" it suggests that something is to follow "I went to the doctor and asked him/her", it sounds a bit incomplete, in UK English at least, I think.
Something went wrong...
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