This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Feb 1, 2015 09:47
9 yrs ago
English term
not improving education in themselves
English to French
Other
Education / Pedagogy
free schools and academies
the above is part of the following statement : 'Academies in the UK are not improving education in themselves'...
Not sure how to render the 'in themselves'.
Thanks in advance
NG
Not sure how to render the 'in themselves'.
Thanks in advance
NG
Proposed translations
(French)
2 +5 | la simple existences des ... n'apporte pas d'amélioration dans l'enseignement (national) | Tony M |
4 | n'améliorent pas l'enseignement par elles-mêmes | Susana E. Cano Méndez |
4 -1 | voir ci-dessous | mchd |
Proposed translations
+5
18 mins
la simple existences des ... n'apporte pas d'amélioration dans l'enseignement (national)
Like I said, it all depends on what the writer goes on to say next. Here, I am assuming that the general sense is 'the acadmeies per se' — though I might have expected the source text word order to have been "In themselves, academies in the UK are not improving education..." or even "Academies in the UK in themselves are not improving education...". What cocnerns me about the word order as given is that it leaves open the possibility that the writer meant "...are not improving education within their own establishments" I feel this is unlikely, however, since to start with, I'd have hoped the writer might have said 'within themselves' (which would have been unambiguous); and also, it would seem a slightly odd statement to make.
So my guess is that what th writer was trying to say was that the mere fact of the presence of these academies isn't actually doing anything directly to improve education, but that they are in some way having an indirect effect on eduction.
Hard to tell which way to take it without more context — is the writer critical of or seeking to praise the academies themselves, or the decision to set them up?
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Note added at 19 minutes (2015-02-01 10:06:46 GMT)
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Apologies for the typo: it should of course be 'existence' in the singular!
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Note added at 30 minutes (2015-02-01 10:17:37 GMT)
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Ok, here is a longer quote that helps put the statement into context:
" NUT: Call for transparency
“This is an utterly damning report which shows that children’s education is being run in an incoherent and unaccountable fashion,” said Kevin Courtney, Deputy General Secretary of the National Union of Teachers (NUT), affiliated to Education International (EI).
“Free schools and academies are clearly not improving education in themselves,” he added. “This has been obvious from the start, yet the Coalition Government has persisted in championing them as the solution to education in England.” "
So although it remains non-explicit, I think it is in fact criticizing the lack of results from the setting-up of these academies.
So my guess is that what th writer was trying to say was that the mere fact of the presence of these academies isn't actually doing anything directly to improve education, but that they are in some way having an indirect effect on eduction.
Hard to tell which way to take it without more context — is the writer critical of or seeking to praise the academies themselves, or the decision to set them up?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 minutes (2015-02-01 10:06:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Apologies for the typo: it should of course be 'existence' in the singular!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 minutes (2015-02-01 10:17:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Ok, here is a longer quote that helps put the statement into context:
" NUT: Call for transparency
“This is an utterly damning report which shows that children’s education is being run in an incoherent and unaccountable fashion,” said Kevin Courtney, Deputy General Secretary of the National Union of Teachers (NUT), affiliated to Education International (EI).
“Free schools and academies are clearly not improving education in themselves,” he added. “This has been obvious from the start, yet the Coalition Government has persisted in championing them as the solution to education in England.” "
So although it remains non-explicit, I think it is in fact criticizing the lack of results from the setting-up of these academies.
Note from asker:
Hi again TOny, the writer is criticizing those schools or more likely the Government for 'pretending' they are the solution to education probs in the UK ! |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
: améliorations
48 mins
|
Merci, Gilles !
|
|
agree |
Murielle M
: ou les academies "en elles-mêmes" n'apportent aucune amélioration...
1 hr
|
Merci, Murielle ! En effet, c'est pour ça que je cherchais de plus ample contexte.
|
|
agree |
Sandra Mouton
1 hr
|
Merci Sandra !
|
|
neutral |
Emmanuella
: amélioration dans
3 hrs
|
Merci, Mamamia ! Ah OK, I thought you were saying it should be 'dans', not that 'dans' was incorrect! Thanks for explaining! I do very often see 'amélioration dans...' but it's obviously just bad FR then! ;-)
|
|
agree |
katsy
: and agree with Murielle
5 hrs
|
Thanks, Katsy!
|
|
agree |
Jean-Claude Gouin
: ... d'accord avec GILOU ...
7 hrs
|
Merci, J-C ! :-)
|
-1
1 hr
voir ci-dessous
Au Royaume-Uni, même les établissements privés n'apportent aucun bénéfice dans l'enseignement.
Dans le contexte, "in themselves" peut être transposé par "même".
Dans le contexte, "in themselves" peut être transposé par "même".
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Sandra Mouton
: Academies and free schools ne sont pas des "établissements privés", par ailleurs le sens n'est pas "même" mais "en elles-mêmes".
38 mins
|
7 hrs
n'améliorent pas l'enseignement par elles-mêmes
Bonsoir, une idée.
Academies in the UK are not improving education in themselves
les écoles privées au Royaume-Uni n'améliorent pas l'enseignement par elles-mêmes
==> c.à.d. "toutes seules".
Salutations.
Academies in the UK are not improving education in themselves
les écoles privées au Royaume-Uni n'améliorent pas l'enseignement par elles-mêmes
==> c.à.d. "toutes seules".
Salutations.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: But note that the source text is in fact 'in themselves', rather than the subtly different 'by themselves' / Ah yes, but such works only give close synonyms that may work in some cirumstances... but don't explain the nuances.
3 mins
|
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/in itself Merci, Tony :)
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Discussion
1. [Suivi d'un compl. déterminatif désignant ce qui est amélioré] :
1. ... le réformisme et l'action syndicale ont obtenu une hausse des niveaux de vie et une amélioration des conditions de travail. A. Camus, L'Homme révolté,1951, p. 264.
Rem. Syntagmes rencontrés amélioration du sort (d'une personne), de sa condition, de sa santé; amélioration de l'espèce, de la race, de la société, des mœurs; amélioration d'une qu
Academies and free schools in the UK are not improving education in themselves, according to a report from the cross-party parliamentary ...