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mAU
Apr 19, 2015 13:54
9 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

mailles

French to English Tech/Engineering Textiles / Clothing / Fashion étanchéité aux flammes
Hello,

"Gaine de protection, destinée à recouvrir une tuyauterie (1) de transport d'un fluide, la gaine comprenant une couche inflammable étanche aux flammes et une couche d'isolation thermique agencée sous la couche ininflammable, la couche ininflammable étant en carbone uniquement, et la couche d'isolation thermique comprenant un tricot, le tricot comprenant une pluralité de mailles et de l'air emprisonné dans la pluralité de mailles, la couche d'isolation thermique comprenant au moins 70% d'air en volume, ..."

In the abstract, "mailles" is translated by "stitches" but can air be trapped in a stitch? :/ or maybe is this a mesh? sorry, this question probably sounds silly to some, but I had to ask :)

Thank you.
Proposed translations (English)
4 a great many stiches, lots of -, a multitude of -
4 +3 mesh
2 loop
References
Référence

Discussion

B D Finch Apr 20, 2015:
Knitting vs sewing Charles is right. I think the difference is that a stitch in knitting (or crochet) links to previous and possibly subsequent stitches made with the same yarn or thread, while a sewing stitch also links the thread to another, support, material. However, it could be argued that the weft in woven material loops around the warp in a similar way to how running stitchs loop around the warp and/or weft of the fabric sewn on. ;)
Tony M Apr 19, 2015:
@ Charles I agree that the preceding 'tricot' ought to help, but somehow, as I read about this 'multiplicity of [things]', it doesn't seem to quite follow on in my mind — in an illogical way I couldn't even begin to explain!
And the point you make about a sewing stitch being a 'loop' isn't really quite true, inasmuch as it is less often a closed loop; but as Wendy says, a knitted one very definitely is (otherwise your jumper would just fall apart!) I think 'loop' is arguably a better word for BOTH, in certain quite specific instances.
Wendy Streitparth Apr 19, 2015:
@ Charles: don't know about a sewing stitch, but a knitting stitch definitely is!
Charles Davis Apr 19, 2015:
Oh, and by the way, to be pernickety, a sewing stitch is also a loop!
Charles Davis Apr 19, 2015:
As to whether "mesh" is a suitable word here, I'm not sure. It would need to have "knitted" before it, I think; not all meshes are knitted. And this sounds as though it comes from a patent, so I don't think any details should be elided: everything needs to be spelt out as fully as in the original, IMO.
Charles Davis Apr 19, 2015:
@Tony I see what you mean, but surely that ambiguity doesn't arise when "maille" is mentioned immediately after "tricot".

But as you say, "stitch" may unsuitable for other reasons. It depends what this "tricot" is actually made of.
Tony M Apr 19, 2015:
@ Charles The trouble is, a 'stitch' taken alone tends to conjure up a sewing stitch — remember that FR uses 2 different words ('maille' et 'point') where in EN we only have the single word 'stitch' for both.

Hence why I feel that 'loop' gives a better image — and cf. also the usage in 'cotte de mailles' (which are very definitely not 'stitches' of any kind!)
Charles Davis Apr 19, 2015:
A stitch, in knitwear, is like a little cell containing a pocket of air. It's not airtight, but it's dead air (as it's known in insulation): in other words, there's very little air exchange between these little pockets and the outside air, which is why knitwear is warm to wear. But here, in any case, the knitted layer is apparently inside a layer of carbon fibre, which is probably more or less airtight, so the air pockets in the stitches are trapped inside.

I can's see any advantage in replacing "stitches" with "loops". A loop isn't airtight either.
Tony M Apr 19, 2015:
To me... ...that part sounds fine.
Louisa Tchaicha (asker) Apr 19, 2015:
the abstract also has "couche ininflammable" translated as "non-inflammable layer"
Tony M Apr 19, 2015:
OK! That's alright then! Just wanted to make sure I was understanding the text correctly! This ambiguous use of '(in)flammable' has been ruled out for many years in EN, where the unambiguous words 'flammable' and 'non-flammable' are preferred.
Louisa Tchaicha (asker) Apr 19, 2015:
@Tony Yes my fault, sorry, it's definitely "ininflammable"
Tony M Apr 19, 2015:
Typo? Before addressing your real question, could you just check if there is a typo — yours, or from the source text — with the first instance of 'inflammable', which on all evidence ought in fact to be 'INinflammable'?

Proposed translations

4 hrs
French term (edited): pluraité de mailles
Selected

a great many stiches, lots of -, a multitude of -

I think it is essential to make clear that it is the great number of stitched which create "dead" space in which air is trapped. It is one of the most basic ways of createing or enhancing a fabrics thermal qualities. The whole idea of the way the French is expressed accentuates that fact and the English should too.

My suggestion may be a bit long-winded, but I think you need to convey the idea is a similar way to how the original has dealt with it.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you all for the much appreciated help. Used "stitches" afterall..."
9 mins
French term (edited): maille

loop

I see what you mean, and if one looks at any kind of 'knitted' fabric, the stitches are of course in reality inter-connected 'loops' — and I don't find it so hard to conceive of 'air trapped within a series of loops'.

I wonder if, in order to try and make the connection with 'knitted', you might say at some point 'looped stitches', for example?
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+3
50 mins

mesh

I think that you need to simplify this whole description when translating it. A literal translation would be too tortuous.

I.e. "le tricot comprenant une pluralité de mailles et de l'air emprisonné dans la pluralité de mailles" > Air is trapped within the knitted mesh. It really doesn't, in my view, need to be spelled out that a knitted mesh is made up of fibre or wire loops.

www.metexcorp.com/bulkmesh_blanket.cfm
Since knitted mesh is made of metal, it is the strongest insulation covering that ... Inconel alloy knitted mesh is the only covering material able to resist heat and ...

www.localindustrialsupplies.co.uk › ... › Plastic Products › Plastic Nets
14*14,,270g/sqm, Fire resistant PVC mesh tarp. Product Description. Hengfeng PVC construction protection mesh is made by the 100% polyester knitted mesh.
Peer comment(s):
agree Helene Tammik
3 mins
Thanks Helene
agree mchd : braided mesh // ben oui ... mais comme "tricot" n'est pas le terme qui convient ...
5 mins
Thanks. However, braid isn't knitted, so no "mailles".
neutral Tony M : 'mesh' could just be a criss-cross thing, not necessarily 'knitted'; and like Charles D., I have some misgivings about over-streamlining in a specifically patent context.
1 hr
This does appear from the description to be a knitted mesh.
agree Philippa Smith
3 hrs
Thanks Philippa
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Some kintted garments are lined with a mesh which is not the meaning here. Mesh can be a grid, or losange shaped and I think it might confuse here. // Which is why "mesh" could confuse. ;-)
3 hrs
A knitted mesh isn't the same as a mesh-lined, knitted garment. Knitted mesh can't be a grid, that would be a braided mesh.// The term "mesh" is generally used for this sort of protective sleeving for pipes.
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Reference comments

39 mins
Reference:

Référence

Etanchéité aux flammes me paraît surprenant !
Voici quelques références qui pourront vous aider
http://cableorganizer.fr/categories/systemes-coupe-feu-prote...

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-04-19 15:26:50 GMT)
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pour braided mesh :
http://www.shutterstock.com/similar-111987452/stock-photo-wi...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2015-04-19 20:01:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

quelques références encore :
https://www.google.fr/search?q=revêtement tressé anti-feu&tb...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2015-04-19 20:05:19 GMT)
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http://www.isolants.com/gaine-anti-feu--p6950_c2_p1.html
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Tony M : I have a sneaking suspicion this 'FR' might have been written by a non-native speaker influenced by EN — flame-proof could easily be mis-rendered as '...étanchéité' (cf. 'water-proof')
3 mins
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