Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Aug 5, 2015 11:43
8 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
Maghané
French to English
Bus/Financial
Music
Hello,
I'm translating an article about music and I can't find this word anywhere (other than as the title of a play).
The singer says: "Souvent, les filles chantent comme des princesses, d’une voix pure, alors que les gars possèdent des voix plus rauques. Je voulais être parmi ces femmes qui osent chanter avec des voix plus maghanées".
Thank you in advance!
I'm translating an article about music and I can't find this word anywhere (other than as the title of a play).
The singer says: "Souvent, les filles chantent comme des princesses, d’une voix pure, alors que les gars possèdent des voix plus rauques. Je voulais être parmi ces femmes qui osent chanter avec des voix plus maghanées".
Thank you in advance!
Proposed translations
(English)
References
Text from Québec | writeaway |
Quotes | Alison MacG |
Change log
Aug 10, 2015 08:53: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+8
39 mins
Selected
raspy / rough
Maganer or maghaner means injure, damage or fatigue, and it's Quebec French, as has been mentioned, so it's good to have confirmation that the text comes from there.
"La définition de maganer dans le dictionnaire est traiter quelqu'un avec rudesse, brutalité. Tourmenter quelqu'un avec insistance, le tracasser. Fatiguer, affaiblir. Fatiguer, affaiblir en exigeant un travail, des efforts excessifs. Mettre quelque chose en mauvais état; lui causer du dommage, des dégâts. Marqué, fripé."
Here's the article Patrick mentioned, which I had also found:
"Il s’agit d’une forme dialectale du verbe, courant en ancien français, « mehaigner ». Ce verbe, d’origine germanique, qui signifie, « blesser », « mutiler », a donné des formes dialectales où le « h » aspiré (étranger au système phonologique roman) est concurrencé par l’occlusive vélaire [g]."
http://oreilletendue.com/2012/02/15/avec-ou-sans/
Applied to a voice, I think the usual adjectives that would be applied in English are raspy or rough. The idea is evidently a voice that sounds "damaged" or worn.
Raspiness is conventionally considered undesirable in a classical singer and associated with blues or rock singers, but I think it's the quality this is referring to. This is about the great soprano Renee Fleming who is now singing rock music:
"When the band kicks in and starts rocking, Fleming pushes a bit more at the edge of her voice, but you can almost hear her backing away from her technique, not soaring like she could but also not yet able to make her voice raspy or soulful or yearning in a rock way."
http://oreilletendue.com/2012/02/15/avec-ou-sans/
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Note added at 40 mins (2015-08-05 12:23:35 GMT)
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Sorry, wrong reference for the last quotation. It should be
http://www.popmatters.com/review/renee-fleming-dark-hope/
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Note added at 44 mins (2015-08-05 12:27:55 GMT)
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Really, in conventional terms, a classically trained voice that is "mag(h)anée" would be damaged or strained. In this text it's opposed to a pure timbre. The singer is saying that she'd like to sing with a less pure tone, a raspier tone. Raspiness is a quality more associated with male voices (you find references to tenors with a touch of this), and that fits also with the fact that singer would apparently like to sound more like "les gars".
"La définition de maganer dans le dictionnaire est traiter quelqu'un avec rudesse, brutalité. Tourmenter quelqu'un avec insistance, le tracasser. Fatiguer, affaiblir. Fatiguer, affaiblir en exigeant un travail, des efforts excessifs. Mettre quelque chose en mauvais état; lui causer du dommage, des dégâts. Marqué, fripé."
Here's the article Patrick mentioned, which I had also found:
"Il s’agit d’une forme dialectale du verbe, courant en ancien français, « mehaigner ». Ce verbe, d’origine germanique, qui signifie, « blesser », « mutiler », a donné des formes dialectales où le « h » aspiré (étranger au système phonologique roman) est concurrencé par l’occlusive vélaire [g]."
http://oreilletendue.com/2012/02/15/avec-ou-sans/
Applied to a voice, I think the usual adjectives that would be applied in English are raspy or rough. The idea is evidently a voice that sounds "damaged" or worn.
Raspiness is conventionally considered undesirable in a classical singer and associated with blues or rock singers, but I think it's the quality this is referring to. This is about the great soprano Renee Fleming who is now singing rock music:
"When the band kicks in and starts rocking, Fleming pushes a bit more at the edge of her voice, but you can almost hear her backing away from her technique, not soaring like she could but also not yet able to make her voice raspy or soulful or yearning in a rock way."
http://oreilletendue.com/2012/02/15/avec-ou-sans/
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2015-08-05 12:23:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Sorry, wrong reference for the last quotation. It should be
http://www.popmatters.com/review/renee-fleming-dark-hope/
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 44 mins (2015-08-05 12:27:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Really, in conventional terms, a classically trained voice that is "mag(h)anée" would be damaged or strained. In this text it's opposed to a pure timbre. The singer is saying that she'd like to sing with a less pure tone, a raspier tone. Raspiness is a quality more associated with male voices (you find references to tenors with a touch of this), and that fits also with the fact that singer would apparently like to sound more like "les gars".
Peer comment(s):
agree |
writeaway
: I now see that the text I found uses rauque instead (oops, my bad) but it means the same thing. husky, throaty, worn, strained etc. Pop singers have raspy voices. Classically trained singers don't -or shouldn't. Male or female.
22 mins
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No, that's right; she seems to want to get away from the constraints of an ideal classically-trained model of female singing. Thanks!
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agree |
Sheri P
: It is directly translated in this doc as "messed up." http://www.cslf.gouv.qc.ca/publications/pubf156ang/part four...
24 mins
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Now that might be a good rendering: a voice that is more messed up. Thanks, Sheri!
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agree |
Philippa Smith
: Yes raspy - think of the king of raspiness, Tom Waits! // Isn't he? I LOVE his music, and that voice that SHOULD be ugly is just sublime...
53 mins
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The ultimate example! Hard to think of a voice that sounds more "damaged" than his. An amazing artist. Thank, Philippa
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agree |
philgoddard
53 mins
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Thanks, Phil!
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agree |
Alison MacG
1 hr
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Thanks, Alison!
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agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: another vote for Tom Waits! wouldn't agree with using "rough" at all
3 hrs
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I'm going to have to dig out one of the CDs and listen to it! Fair enough, strike out "rough" :) Many thanks!
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agree |
B D Finch
4 hrs
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Thanks, Barbara :)
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agree |
erwan-l
: #TeamWaits
22 hrs
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The one and only! We're going to have to form a group of proz.com Tom Waits fans! Thanks :)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you!"
1 hr
husky
*
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Note added at 1 heure (2015-08-05 13:10:04 GMT)
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We love this blues songstress. There is an innate emotional depth to her voice, which is ageless. There’s nothing sexier than a husky female voice. - on Bonnie Raitt
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Note added at 1 heure (2015-08-05 13:10:04 GMT)
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We love this blues songstress. There is an innate emotional depth to her voice, which is ageless. There’s nothing sexier than a husky female voice. - on Bonnie Raitt
1 hr
damaged, broken, spoiled, worn, ruined, worn, blemished ...
I'm not surprised that this word (maghané / magané) does not appear in a French dictionary. I wouldn't say it's Québec French; I would say Canadian French; every French speaking Canadian knows what maghané / magané means. Depending on context, it could mean damaged, broken, spoiled (spoiled product), worn, ruined, worn, blemished, etc. Another French word for maghané / magané would be 'abîmé' ... C'est de l'argot français du Canada; it's French Canadian slang ... Après l'accident, il était maghané / magané: He was 'damaged' after the accident. Il était maghané / magané en arrivant à la maison ivre. He was in bad shape when he came home drunk. Etc.
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Note added at 4 heures (2015-08-05 15:45:19 GMT)
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As I said earlier, 'maghané / magané' has many meaning. If we're talking about voices, I would go with 'worn' ...
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Note added at 4 heures (2015-08-05 15:45:19 GMT)
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As I said earlier, 'maghané / magané' has many meaning. If we're talking about voices, I would go with 'worn' ...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
writeaway
: it does appear in French dictionaries. not all the terms you list are used with reference to voices
9 mins
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Thank you, writeaway, for your opinion. That's why I added a note RE voices ...
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neutral |
patrickfor
: Mes excuses pour Fr du Québec, c'est le premier truc qui m'est venu. Et merci pour ce joli mot, moi je l'adopte immédiatement !.
11 hrs
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Pas de problèmes, Patrick ...
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neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: yep, heard the word often in Quebec...which, after all is where most French is spoken. But yes, it's Canadian French and very common. But "raspy" best for this context
20 hrs
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;)
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7 hrs
damaged (not in good shape)
Maganer : Verbe propre au langage populaire québécois, que l'on croit issu de l'ancien français "mahaignier" au 12e siècle. Au Québec on l'emploie pour marquer les actes suivants : [1] abîmer, amocher, maltraiter ; [2] éreinter, user par un travail ou une activité quelconque.
From dictionnaire québécois
From dictionnaire québécois
8 hrs
smoky, raspy, gravelly
It sounds like this may refer to a singing voice that could be called "smoky" or "gravelly". Examples of such singers could include Louis Armstrong, Janis Joplin, Steven Tyler, Kathleen Turner, Eartha Kitt among others.
Example sentence:
Fred was enraptured by her smokey singing voice.
Reference comments
20 mins
Reference:
Text from Québec
###PAGE###1### www.mnba.qc.ca PABLO PICASSO, LA ...
collecti...
Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec
Sep 22, 2007 - Souvent, les filles chantent comme des princesses, d'une voix pure, alors que les gars possèdent des voix plus rauques. Je voulais être parmi .
collecti...
Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec
Sep 22, 2007 - Souvent, les filles chantent comme des princesses, d'une voix pure, alors que les gars possèdent des voix plus rauques. Je voulais être parmi .
2 hrs
Reference:
Quotes
Quotes from interviews with the singer conducted in English
“I’ve got a lot of different voices inside. I used to be able to sing a lot more like shiny and pure and now I find I don’t really know where that person is anymore. She’s just getting a lot more raspy and a little harder. It’s coming a lot more from the gut; always mutating into something else,” Webber explains.
http://www.usc.uwo.ca/gazette/archives/story.php?sect=arts&i...
"We're starting off over there, so you guys are going to have me when my voice isn't super raspy yet," she says, with barely a trace of a French accent. Her speaking voice, deep and throaty, echoes the mesmerizing dichotomy of her music, which ranges from open and velvety to dark and raspy.
http://issuu.com/brunswickan/docs/issue-20--vol-141--the-bru...
“I’ve got a lot of different voices inside. I used to be able to sing a lot more like shiny and pure and now I find I don’t really know where that person is anymore. She’s just getting a lot more raspy and a little harder. It’s coming a lot more from the gut; always mutating into something else,” Webber explains.
http://www.usc.uwo.ca/gazette/archives/story.php?sect=arts&i...
"We're starting off over there, so you guys are going to have me when my voice isn't super raspy yet," she says, with barely a trace of a French accent. Her speaking voice, deep and throaty, echoes the mesmerizing dichotomy of her music, which ranges from open and velvety to dark and raspy.
http://issuu.com/brunswickan/docs/issue-20--vol-141--the-bru...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Charles Davis
: Thanks for these extra references, Alison. It's a word that seems to be used quite often in singing. And yes, this is actually the same singer (I didn't get that point at first!)
1 hr
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Thanks, Charles (sorry I wasn't quite clear enough)
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agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: good finds
2 hrs
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Thanks, Gallagy
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Discussion
###PAGE###1### www.mnba.qc.ca PABLO PICASSO, LA ...
collecti...
Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec
Sep 22, 2007 - Souvent, les filles chantent comme des princesses, d'une voix pure, alors que les gars possèdent des voix plus rauques. Je voulais être parmi .
"Sur Twitter, le 10 février, Larousse faisait de maganer son #motdujour : «Au Québec, abîmer, user (familier).» Le Dictionnaire de la langue québécoise de Léandre Bergeron (1980, p. 302) et le Petit lexique d’Ephrem Desjardins (2002, p. 101) ont cette orthographe. Si vous l’aviez interrogée là-dessus, l’Oreille tendue vous aurait répondu la même chose : pas de h.
Il est pourtant des gens qui en mettent un. Ainsi, le Devoir des 28-29 janvier 2012 contient le mot «maghanant» (p. B2).
http://oreilletendue.com/2012/02/15/avec-ou-sans/