Peter Close Sep 26, 2016:

No, it would make me say, "as is evident from the results, they did not deliver the anticipated benefits". (Now, please excuse me, but I have a long translation of my own to do and have to get on with it).

Nick Lingris Sep 26, 2016:

Let me restrict my answer to your first remark and thank you for understanding my point. Partly. I did not translate "καθώς" differently. I added "to judge". Pretty much what you suggest with your addition of "as is evident". However, this addition relates to "εκ του αποτελέσματος" only. It would make you say "as, as is evident from the results, they [the reforms] did not deliver the anticipated benefits".

Peter Close Sep 26, 2016:

Good morning Nick,

In that case, I still don't think it is necessary to translate "καθώς" differently, but merely to adjust my answer to, "as is evident (or clear) from the results". My, oh my, this word "bullying" is in fashion in Greece, isn't it! I was not bullying you in any way, and certainly not intending to do so. I was merely stating a fact that, in my experience, most Greek people usually prefer to translate Greek texts differently into English than most English people who know Greek well consider to be perfectly appropriate. I could give you plenty of examples of this.

And, by the way, I do have a copy of Babiniotis' dictionary on my desk, and, if you will excuse me for saying so, the Greek phrase, “Εκ του αποτελέσματος” is not only a formal expression in Greek, but its English translation of "by (or from) the results" is also very common in English and in no way restricted in use only with the English translation of "κρίνω", but Greek people tend to associate the phrase with "κρίνω", as , you, yourself, have confirmed.

Nick Lingris Sep 26, 2016:

The only difference in my answer is that I am asking for this helpful addition to be made. I would have made it to the Greek text as well. Your answer says “as from the result they did not deliver the anticipated benefits” (or something close to that) and mine says “as, to judge from the results, they did etc”, making the whole thing clearer.
Your comment “does not sound so good to a native speaker of Greek … because native speakers of Greek usually think primarily in Greek” constitutes some kind of linguistic bullying, and it is totally out of place when the question is more about decoding from Greek than encoding into English.
It is also totally out of place when addressed to me.

Nick Lingris Sep 26, 2016:

OK. Get ready for a long and needless answer.
The Greek sentence is incomplete. I guess it continues after “τα αναμενόμενα οφέλη» (unless it is a bullet point).
“Καθώς” is a conjunction here introducing the secondary clause “καθώς (εκ του αποτελέσματος) δεν επέτυχαν τα αναμενόμενα οφέλη” and the English equivalent is, of course, “as”. I did not put that in the title of my answer because it is irrelevant in the discussion. It is obvious from its title that my answer is restricted to the expression “εκ του αποτελέσματος”. “As” comes up in the translation below.
“Εκ του αποτελέσματος” is a formal expression still often used in modern Greek, often in combination with “κρίνω” or similar verbs to show that we reach a conclusion based on given results. Let me copy the entry from the Babiniotis dictionary, which translators from or into Greek should have on their desks.

από το αποτέλεσμα / (λόγ.) εκ του αποτελέσματος (ενν. κρίνω, συμπεραίνω) για συμπέρασμα που συνάγεται από την έκβαση που είχε κάτι, με βάση το τι ακολούθησε, το τι τελικώς προέκυψε: κρίνοντας ~ μπορούμε να πούμε ότι επρόκειτο για άστοχη ενέργεια | εκ τού αποτελέσματος τεκμαίρεται δόλος του κατηγορουμένου.

Peter Close Sep 26, 2016:

Good morning,

Isn’t “judging by the results” "κρίνοντας εκ του αποτελέσματος". Every dictionary I have gives the meaning of “καθώς” to be “as”, and since it is perfectly good English to say, “as by the results” or “as from the results”, I see no reason to translate “καθώς εκ του αποτελέσματος” in any other way. If “as by the results” or “as from the results” does not sound so good to a native speaker of Greek, this may be because native speakers of Greek may not be so accustomed to hearing how English people say things in their own language in the course of their daily lives, and/or because native speakers of Greek usually think primarily in Greek.

See:

http://www.eurocapital.gr/index.php/permalink/41873.html