Mar 28, 2017 18:38
7 yrs ago
7 viewers *
French term

caisse (non) cadre

French to English Bus/Financial Investment / Securities pension fund management
Hello all, for this press release by a second-pillar pension fund manager, I'm looking for the term "caisse (non) cadre." I'm not getting a lot of context from the document itself. Here are the only instances of it:

"1er en [company X], caisse non cadre, sur 24 institutions en 2013, 2014 et 2015"

"2ème en [company Y], caisse cadre, sur 14 institutions en 2013 (NA en 2014)"

Thank you.

Discussion

Francois Boye Mar 29, 2017:
@ Nikki:

Many 'cadres' in France have nobody reporting to them. So there are not managers. Why? Those cadres have the level of education that justifies their classification as 'cadres' (BAC+ 4 years at least). For example, in a law firm, all the lawyers are 'cadres'. But not all of them have staff reporting to them. In a university, all the professors are 'cadres', but not all of them manage their schools or their universities. etc..

Francois Boye Mar 29, 2017:
@ Nikki

What professionals and 'cadres' have in common is the fact of having a certified, high level of training or education.
Francois Boye Mar 29, 2017:
The attachment below shows that the concept of 'cadre' is far from being clear-cut in France.

http://lexpansion.lexpress.fr/actualite-economique/un-cadre-...
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 29, 2017:
French notion and meaning of "cadre" The French term "cadre" has specific meaning, particularly within the framework of retirement pensions. The status is often a point of negotiation in a contract of employment. Having an employee classified in the "cadre" status means the employer pays higher contributions and the employee pays higher contributions too, but will benefit from a higher pension once retired.

I am tracking down info for a reference post to back up what I have said here. Note that many people who do in fact "encadre" others within the function of their employment seek to be "reclassé" precisely in order to ensure certain advantages, including improved pension rights. Many of these cases make it to court, or industrial tribunals, some with retroactive effect. Certain employers do not wish to pay increased charges for a "cadre" and have a vested interest in the employee remaining as a "non cadre". It is therefore specific, of great importance, and stated in contracts of employment, amendments thereto and/or on payslips too.

P.S. Again, whilst I see "professional/non-professional", I stll cannot get the link to the meaning of "cadre"; nor indeed can I see how it fits on a standalone US term in context
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Mar 29, 2017:
@François I have just added to my comment on your suggestion. I now agree with "pension-fund". I had somehow overlooked that point!

However, whilst I note what you say about the use of the terms "professional/non-professional" in the US, I cannot see how you link it to the meaning of "cadre". Your definitions might be accurate for a US description of "professional". How do they correspond to the French meaning of the term "cadre"?
If I try to match them, this is what I find:
- According to the first of your definitions above, (1) a "cadre" is not necessarily formally certified by a professional body; and (2) it is quite possible to reach an acclaimed level of proficiency in a calling or a trade without ever being considered as a "cadre".
- Your second definition comes closer, but it is possible to be a manager without being a cadre.

The FR term "cadre" refers to a "management" position within a company or organisation, private or public sector, each with its own rights and obligations. As you have indicated, a managerial position may or may not be an executive position. The point is not raised in the French either so it is "hors sujet".
Francois Boye Mar 29, 2017:
Definition of an executive below

Person or group appointed and given the responsibility to manage the affairs of an organization and the authority to make decisions within specified boundaries.
Francois Boye Mar 29, 2017:
Definition of a manager below

An individual who is in charge of a certain group of tasks, or a certain subset of a company. A manager often has a staff of people who report to him or her.
As an example, a restaurant will often have a front-of-house manager who helps the patrons, and supervises the hosts; or a specific office project can have a manager, known simply as the project manager. Certain departments within a company designate their managers to be line managers, while others are known as staff managers, depending upon the function of the department.
Francois Boye Mar 29, 2017:
Un cadre = A professional

Definition of a professional below.

1. Person formally certified by a professional body of belonging to a specific profession by virtue of having completed a required course of studies and/or practice. And whose competence can usually be measured against an established set of standards.

2. Person who has achieved an acclaimed level of proficiency in a calling or trade. See also professionalism.





Proposed translations

+1
1 hr

Fund, non-management

It seems that "caisse" and "non caisse" refers to management and non-management.

For example, pension accounts relating to negotiated union agreements will be in one fund, but management is not generally in the union, so accrued amounts would be a different fund.
Peer comment(s):

agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Management/Non-management [type] fund. If not clear from the context, the type would generally be stated.// It is given, I'd not noticed, so : "management/non-management pension fund".
19 mins
neutral Francois Boye : any proof? any reference?
50 mins
Here's one example: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2504
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-1
4 hrs

fund for non-executive / executive employees

......the French Social Security related website appears to translate cadre / non-cadre in this case as executive / non-executive.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Francois Boye : Tous les cadres de la France ne sont pas des agents de direction (executives).http://lexpansion.lexpress.fr/actualite-economique/un-cadre-...
1 hr
disagree Jackie Doble : I agree with François, non-executive is way off the mark
11 hrs
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2 hrs

pension fund for professional staff /non professional staff

caisse cadre = caisse de retraite des cadres (see attachment)


http://www.economiematin.fr/news-la-caisse-de-retraite-des-c...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2017-03-28 21:14:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Erratum: NON-PROFESSIONAL instead of non professional

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2017-03-29 00:35:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You can say PROFESSIONALS instead of professional staff
Peer comment(s):

neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : It may be a pension fund, it may not. It is not indicated. However, cadre/non-cadre is management/non-management.//(1) Sorry, yes for "pension fund". (2) I note your remarks about "professional" for US, but the fact remains, in FR, "cadres" are "managers"
37 mins
What are pension fund managers for? Managing pension funds, isn't it?//In the US, they say professionals as opposed to non-professionals and professionals are not necessarily managers.
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Reference comments

15 hrs
Reference:

Meaning of "cadre".

This post is to be read in conjunction with my posts in the Discussion box. "Cadre" is a recognised status conferring upon an individual certain rights, particularly with regard to retirement pension contributions and, when the day comes round, to pension rights.

From what I set out below, I hope to underline the importance of being a "cadre" or a "non-cadre" together with some of the implications of the status. It is important to bear in mind that many managerial positions do not beenfit form a "cadre" status, that many people carry out managerial functions without having the status either and, if we are to be honest, that some people have the "cadre" status on their contract of emplpoyment and payslip without having any genuine managerial responsibilites to talk of.

Note that different rights and duties are attached to the status of "cadres" who are in the private and public sectors.


http://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/cid3190907/on-propose-acc...

On me propose d'accéder au statut de cadre, quel est l'avantage pour le calcul de ma retraite ?

Si vous devenez cadre, vous continuerez à cotiser à la retraite de base au même taux, mais vos cotisations de retraite complémentaire vont probablement augmenter un peu, à salaire égal, sauf si votre rémunération dépasse un certain seuil (3549,24€ en 2016).

En-dessous de ce seuil, vous devrez payer une cotisation fixe (68,07€ par mois en 2016, part salarié + part employeur), quel que soit votre salaire. C’est la garantie minimum de points, qui vous donnera droit en échange à une meilleure pension.

En savoir plus : Passer cadre, qu'est-ce que ça change pour ma retraite ?
158 personnes ont trouvé cette question utile. Et vous ? ouinon


http://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/cid3198074/passer-cadre-e...
08/03/2017

Passer cadre, qu'est-ce que ça change pour ma retraite ?

Devenir cadre ne change pas vos cotisations au régime de base, mais affecte vos cotisations de retraite complémentaire. En-dessous d'un certain seuil, votre net va même se réduire, à salaire brut égal ! Mais pour un peu plus de droits à la retraite. Explications.

Sommaire
• 1. Principe
• 2. Le changement de cotisations complémentaires
o 2.1. En tant que salarié non-cadre du secteur privé
o 2.2. En tant que salarié cadre du secteur privé
• 3. La garantie minimale de points (GMP)
• 4. Et donc, concrètement ?

1. Principe
Que vous soyez salarié du régime général ou de l'agriculture, le passage au statut cadre n'a pas d'incidence sur votre régime de base : vous continuez à cotiser le même pourcentage de votre salaire à la CNAV (ou à la MSA si vous êtes salarié agricole).

Le passage au statut cadre modifie, en revanche, votre situation au regard de la retraite complémentaire. En pratique, en dessous d'un certain salaire, vous verserez davantage de cotisations, mais percevrez également une retraite un peu plus élevée.

2. Le changement de cotisations complémentaires

2.1. En tant que salarié non-cadre du secteur privé
En tant que salarié non-cadre du secteur privé, vous cotisiez à un seul organisme pour votre retraite complémentaire : l'Arrco. Dès lors que vous devenez cadre, vous cotisez, en plus, à un autre organisme : l'Agirc.
Quand vous étiez non-cadre, votre cotisation s'élèvait à :
• 3,1% de la part de votre salaire brut située en-dessous du plafond de la Sécurité sociale, pendant que votre employeur versait 4,65%, à l'Arrco (soit 7,75% du brut au total).
• Si votre salaire dépassait le plafond de la Sécurité sociale, 8,1% de la part de votre salaire brut située entre ce plafond et trois fois son montant, pendant que votre employeur versait 12,15%, toujours à l'Arrco (soit 20,25% du brut au total).
L'ensemble des cotisations versées par vous et votre employeur vous donnait droit à des points de retraite Arrco.

2.2. En tant que salarié cadre du secteur privé
En tant que salarié cadre du secteur privé, vous continuerez à verser, sur la part inférieure au plafond de la Sécurité sociale, 3,1% à l'Arrco (avec 4,65% à la charge de votre employeur, soit 7,75% au total), comme les non-cadres. Au-dessus de ce plafond, vous ne paierez rien de plus à l'Arrco.

En revanche, sur la part située entre une fois et quatre fois (et non plus trois fois) le plafond de la Sécurité sociale, vous paierez 7,8% à l'Agirc (12,75% pour votre employeur), soit 20,55% au total.
Vous accumulez donc des points Arrco et des points Agirc.

Vous acquitterez en plus la CET (contribution exceptionnelle et temporaire, en vigueur depuis… 1997) de 0,13% (plus 0,22% pour l'employeur, soit 0,35% au total). Celle-ci ne vous donne droit à aucun point.

(Cadre ou non-cadre, vous versez également une cotisation à l'AGFF, pour le financement de la retraite complémentaire, mais les taux sont les mêmes).

Enfin, si vous gagnez plus que 4 fois le plafond de la Sécurité sociale, vous verserez des cotisations dites « tranche C », qui vous donneront des droits supplémentaires.

[…]




Example of the AGRIC.

http://www.agirc-arrco.fr/qui-sommes-nous/organisation/agirc...
Présentation de l'Agirc

L'Agirc (Association générale des institutions de retraite complémentaire des cadres) gère le régime de retraite complémentaire des cadres du secteur privé de l’industrie, du commerce, des services et de l’agriculture. Elle fédère l'ensemble des caisses de retraite Agirc.

Statut de droit privé, remplissant une mission d’intérêt général, régie par le code de la Sécurité sociale, l’Agirc fédère 12 caisses de retraite complémentaire.
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