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RODDC JURADO BRASIL 2018
meio

Glossary entry

português term or phrase:

O seu + prenome

inglês translation:

Mr. + first name

Added to glossary by Oliver Simões
Jul 20, 2018 21:38
5 yrs ago
9 viewers *
português term

O seu + first name

português para inglês Outra Geral/conversas/saudações/cartas Conversation
Standardized test to assess developmental delays, etc.

Brazilian Portuguese

Lá está o seu João

Does this mean something like "There's Mr. João"?

Or something else entirely?

Thanks for your help! Sorry about lack of accents, etc.
Proposed translations (inglês)
4 +1 Mr. + first name
4 +3 Omit
4 +2 Mr. (name)
Change log

Jul 25, 2018 23:21: Oliver Simões changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/18798">Roxane Dow's</a> old entry - "O seu + first name"" to ""Mr. + first name""

Discussion

Oliver Simões Jul 23, 2018:
@ Muriel Personally, I prefer adding a note to the Portuguese honorific, it sounds more natural and perhaps more of a cultural marker. I also added this to my answer to reinforce that a note is probably the way to go. I totally understand your point when you say "Mr. João" sounds "goofy" to the average English reader." Definitely, the register, the genre, and the readership are playing factors.
Muriel Vasconcellos Jul 22, 2018:
Since the context is a comprehension test ... the main purpose is so find out if the testee understands the term. Perhaps a note could be added that any of the following three forms would be acceptable: 'Seu João', 'Mr. João' (which I personally don't like), or omitting it entirely. (I have added this suggestion to my answer below.)
Muriel Vasconcellos Jul 22, 2018:
@ Oliveira Simões I totally understand why you would handle it the way you did in a serious translation of Guimarães Rosa. The answer depends on the register, the genre, and the readership. As a totally native English speaker and writer with a Ph.D. in linguistics, I can only say that 'Mr. João' sounds goofy to the average English reader. I would prefer 'Seu João' if you want to preserve the local flavor. The Minas interior is NOT a cultural equivalent of US Appalachia. Each is unique. And Sagarana, as you well know, makes specific use of that particular dialect .
Oliver Simões Jul 22, 2018:
An afterthought Not sure who defined it, but the concept is also known as "cultural marker" or "identity marker", which includes the language: https://culture.systime.dk/index.php?id=238&L=1

Another option is to keep the term in Portuguese with a footnote. Here's an example, my translation of a passage of "Sagarana" by Guimarães Rosa. It may contain errors, as it has not been revised/proofread: http://masterportuguesetranslator.com/samples/literary-trans...
Mario Freitas Jul 22, 2018:
Localism It is definitely a localism in Portuguese as well. If you omit it, you'll suppress that localism.
Muriel Vasconcellos Jul 22, 2018:
Dynamic equivalent Professor Eugene Nida, one of the most important scholars of translation theory, invented the term "dynamic equivalent": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_and_formal_equivalence
The idea is that you choose the rendition that creates the same effect in the target culture. Saying 'Mr John' is a dialectal variation of English limited to certain areas of Appalachia - hence not a dynamic equivalent of what we would normally say.

Proposed translations

+1
32 minutos
Selected

Mr. + first name

Even though honorific titles are not normally used with a given name in English, they are in Brazilian Portuguese and, according to this discussion thread, they are also used in the southern United States.
https://dicionariocriativo.com.br/analogico/elevação_moral/a...

Clearly, languages are not monolithic (thank God), and there can always be exceptions to the rule. This seems to be a case in point. Now, using another example, who in the US never heard of "Dr. Ruth", described by Wikipedia as "a fixture in late-night television and a major pop culture figure as a sex therapist, media personality, and author"? Prescriptive grammar says we must call her Dr. Westheimer, but that's not how she's known to most people.

In short, I favor using the honorific (Mr.) to show that this is a cultural marker (even though it's not often used in English. By omitting the title, we are also omitting a part of the source culture!

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Note added at 1 hr (2018-07-20 23:00:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Driving Miss Daisy" is a good example of what we are talking about:
https://youtu.be/TQ3wXC5jqKE

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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2018-07-21 23:29:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PS: When I say "omitting part of the source-culture", I mean the information that is conveyed by the term "seu" (short for "o senhor"), an honorific that encapsulates reverence and respect for an older man, a man of a higher rank, and which can sometimes be used facetiously and sarcastically, such as when an adult refers to a boy as "o senhor". Example: "Onde o senhor deixou o seu brinquedo?" (Mister, where did you leave your toy?).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 3 hrs (2018-07-23 01:23:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Adding my discussion comment with a little twist:

Another option is to keep the term in Portuguese with a footnote. Here's an example, my translation of a passage of "Sagarana" by Guimarães Rosa. It may contain errors, as it has not been revised/proofread: http://masterportuguesetranslator.com/samples/literary-trans...
Example sentence:

Ruth Westheimer (born June 4, 1928), better known as Dr. Ruth, is a German-born, Jewish immigrant to the United States...

Is it correct to use Mr/Mrs with a first name? -- This is very common and proper in the southern United States.

Reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Westheimer

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/53945/can-mr-mrs-etc-be-used-with-a-first-name

Peer comment(s):
agree Marilia Sette Câmara
12 horas
Thank you, Marília.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you! Since this is a back translation, I opted for including "Mr." Also, I know this construction is widely used in the South in the U.S."
+2
31 minutos

Mr. (name)

You've got it right.

http://ionepinheiro.com.br/index.php/component/k2/item/287-s...

A língua portuguesa se altera constantemente. Novas expressões surgem e são adequadas à realidade de quem faz uso do idioma. Um exemplo é a palavra Seu, que equivale ao axiônimo Senhor. Chamar uma pessoa pela qual se tem respeito e, ao mesmo tempo, carinho de Seu Manoel, por exemplo, não é incorreto. Trata-se apenas de uma maneira informal de se reportar a ela. Tampouco é errado escrever Seu Manoel, além do que é facultativo o uso de caixa baixa ou alta. O que não pode é botar aspas, como neste exemplo: Olá, "Seu" Moacir!

Portanto, fique à vontade! Tanto Senhor como Seu são completamente aceitáveis na linguagem coloquial. Está, inclusive, no Aurélio.

Seu. (De senhor.) S. m. 1. Equivale ao axiônimo senhor (Sr.), vindo claro o nome da pessoa, ou a outro axiônimo, ou palavra designativa de profissão, etc. “Seu Acrísio, jogador e quase cego, … tenteava degraus e portas com o cajado.” (Graciliano Ramos, Infância, p. 51);
Peer comment(s):
agree Matheus Chaud
1 hora
Thanks Matheus :)
agree Mario Freitas :
19 horas
Valeu, Mário :) Um bom FDS.
Something went wrong...
+3
4 minutos

Omit

It's an honorific that we would not use in English.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 1 hr (2018-07-22 23:14:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am adding my discussion comment above to this answer:

Since the context is a comprehension test, the main purpose is so find out if the testee understands the term. Perhaps a note could be added that any of the following three forms would be acceptable: 'Seu João', 'Mr. João' (which I personally don't like), or omitting it entirely.
Peer comment(s):
agree Antonio Tomás Lessa do Amaral
9 horas
Thank you!
neutral Mario Freitas : It's commonly used to refer to older people in the countryside. It could be omitted, but using "Mr" may keep the respectful tone.
20 horas
Hi Mario, I'm aware of that usage. In Virginia, we called our older neighbor 'Mr. Leo'.. But it's an oddity in English; definitely a localism. It would sound very strange in standard English. In translation theory, we aspire for the "dynamic equivalent."
agree Tim Friese
2 dias 1 hora
Thank you, Tim!
agree Richard Purdom : apply the K.I.S.S. principle to a test on assessing developmental delays. it's hardly Mark Twain!
2 dias 18 horas
Thanks, Richard!
Something went wrong...
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