Mar 18, 2019 14:02
5 yrs ago
21 viewers *
French term
Norway
mesure de tutelle confiée à un mandataire judiciaire extra familial
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Civil law case - succession
Hi,
I'm translating an interim order document from the High Court of Paris from French (France) into English (UK). In the case, the plaintiffs are have sent legal summons to the defendants in order to get an expert opinion about the authenticity of a will. I'm struggling with one of the phrases. Please see below:
"En l'espèce, le [date] 2017, [x] est décédée à l'âge de [y] ans. Par jugement en date du [...] 2017, elle a fait l'objet d'une mesure de tutelle confiée à un mandataire judiciaire extra familial."
From my understanding, administration over her estate is being passed on to an extra-familial court receiver. Would "proceedings were issued against her, placing administration of her estate in the hands of an extra-familial court-appointed receiver" be the most appropriate translation here? Or is there something more suitable possible?
Many thanks in advance for your help :)
I'm translating an interim order document from the High Court of Paris from French (France) into English (UK). In the case, the plaintiffs are have sent legal summons to the defendants in order to get an expert opinion about the authenticity of a will. I'm struggling with one of the phrases. Please see below:
"En l'espèce, le [date] 2017, [x] est décédée à l'âge de [y] ans. Par jugement en date du [...] 2017, elle a fait l'objet d'une mesure de tutelle confiée à un mandataire judiciaire extra familial."
From my understanding, administration over her estate is being passed on to an extra-familial court receiver. Would "proceedings were issued against her, placing administration of her estate in the hands of an extra-familial court-appointed receiver" be the most appropriate translation here? Or is there something more suitable possible?
Many thanks in advance for your help :)
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +6 | guardianship order with court-appointed non-family guardian |
Eliza Hall
|
| 3 | a receivership entrusted to a Judicial Trustee (E&W: Court of Protection Deputy) outside the family |
Adrian MM.
|
References
| Reference |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
|
| Guardian of an adult |
Daryo
|
Proposed translations
+6
1 hr
Eliza Hall
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Lawyer-Translator-Certified Interpreter
Native in: English (Variants: US, Scottish, Canadian, Irish, British, UK)
Works in: French to English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
145
Selected
guardianship order with court-appointed non-family guardian
From my discussion entry: It would appear that shortly before her death (same year), she was adjudicated incompetent (or perhaps she was a minor; in either case, the court decided she needed someone else to manage her affairs) and guardianship over her was given to a court-appointed guardian who was not a member of her family.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
: Assuming the second date is before the first.
35 mins
|
| agree |
writeaway
3 hrs
|
| agree |
B D Finch
20 hrs
|
| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: @Phil, the second date must predate the first one. A "mesure de tutelle" ends when a person dies. This has to be referring to an inter vivos guardianship appointment.
21 hrs
|
|
Yes, I agree.
|
|
| agree |
Julie Barber
1 day 18 hrs
|
| agree |
Daryo
: "mesure de tutelle" must be inter vivos
2 days 8 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
2 hrs
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: Scottish, British) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
359
a receivership entrusted to a Judicial Trustee (E&W: Court of Protection Deputy) outside the family
Guardianship in England & Wales is for someone under-age. Quaere: the age of the deceased or US: decedent.
A non-family member would be assumed anyway in the UK.
NB probate issued in 'solemn' form where there is a dispute and in 'common' form where there is none.
An 'originating summons' would be issued in E&W to establish the authenticity of the Will and and resolve any ambiguities.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-03-18 16:46:54 GMT)
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www.druces.com/appointment-judicial-trustee-act-supervision...
A non-family member would be assumed anyway in the UK.
NB probate issued in 'solemn' form where there is a dispute and in 'common' form where there is none.
An 'originating summons' would be issued in E&W to establish the authenticity of the Will and and resolve any ambiguities.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2019-03-18 16:46:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
www.druces.com/appointment-judicial-trustee-act-supervision...
Reference:
http://www.gov.uk/become-deputy/responsibilities
http://https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/judicial+trustee
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
philgoddard
: Long time no see!
1 hr
|
|
Thanks. I am sure you missed me in retirement.
|
|
| neutral |
B D Finch
: This sounds more like the Court of Protection than a "receivership". So, your reference is more appropriate than the term you suggest.
18 hrs
|
|
Thanks for the pointer. The asker had IMO been spot-on with a ref. to 'receivership' that had been the E&W precursor of a Court of Protection Deputyship https://www.moneycarer.org.uk/faqs/deputyship/what-is-a-cour...
|
|
| neutral |
Daryo
: "une mesure de tutelle" => a (natural) person of any age is considered legally incompetent vs. "receivership" = a business in financial trouble is put under external control.
Where is the link?
2 days 6 hrs
|
Reference comments
22 hrs
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Works in field
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
451
Reference:
Reference
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/N155
Note that the first solution considered is for a family member to act as guardian.
http://www.tutelle-curatelle.com/protection_juridique_majeur...
"La différence entre la tutelle et la curatelle s'exprime dans le Code Civil par une notion médicale, la notion de « besoin ». Dans tous les cas, c'est le Juge des Tutelles qui décide de la mesure la mieux adaptée aux besoins du majeur à protéger.
Une mesure de tutelle sera mise en place si un majeur à protéger a besoin d'être représenté d'une manière continue dans tous les actes de la vie civile (art 440 du Code Civil).
Une mesure de curatelle sera mise en place si un majeur à protéger, sans être hors d'état d'agir lui-même, a besoin d'être conseillé ou contrôlé (art 440 du Code Civil)."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2019-03-19 12:20:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note from the first reference, note: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2120
"Décès de la personne sous tutelle:
La mission du tuteur s'arrête le jour du décès de la personne protégée.
Le tuteur doit présenter les comptes dans les 3 mois suivant le décès.
En cas de décès sans héritier le tuteur doit demander la nomination du Domaine en qualité de curateur et lui transmettre tous les documents en sa possession. Cette demande se fait auprès du TGI du domicile du défunt lors de son décès."
Note that the first solution considered is for a family member to act as guardian.
http://www.tutelle-curatelle.com/protection_juridique_majeur...
"La différence entre la tutelle et la curatelle s'exprime dans le Code Civil par une notion médicale, la notion de « besoin ». Dans tous les cas, c'est le Juge des Tutelles qui décide de la mesure la mieux adaptée aux besoins du majeur à protéger.
Une mesure de tutelle sera mise en place si un majeur à protéger a besoin d'être représenté d'une manière continue dans tous les actes de la vie civile (art 440 du Code Civil).
Une mesure de curatelle sera mise en place si un majeur à protéger, sans être hors d'état d'agir lui-même, a besoin d'être conseillé ou contrôlé (art 440 du Code Civil)."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2019-03-19 12:20:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note from the first reference, note: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2120
"Décès de la personne sous tutelle:
La mission du tuteur s'arrête le jour du décès de la personne protégée.
Le tuteur doit présenter les comptes dans les 3 mois suivant le décès.
En cas de décès sans héritier le tuteur doit demander la nomination du Domaine en qualité de curateur et lui transmettre tous les documents en sa possession. Cette demande se fait auprès du TGI du domicile du défunt lors de son décès."
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| neutral |
Adrian MM.
: Your ref. to a guardian (NB of children-only in England & Wales, but not in the US vs. a receiver or CofP Deputy) is at odds with the quote of la mesure la mieux adaptée aux besoins du *majeur* à protéger.
31 mins
|
| agree |
Daryo
1 day 11 hrs
|
2 days 9 hrs
Reference:
Guardian of an adult
What is a guardianship order?
A guardianship order is an order granted by a court giving power to whoever applies to make welfare and/or financial decisions on behalf of an Adult who has been deemed to no longer have capacity to make these decisions for themselves. A guardianship order allows decisions to be made on behalf of an Adult on an ongoing basis, for example the kind of care they will receive, or it may allow them to sell a property if they need to. Guardianship orders are generally granted by the court for a period of 3 years. An Adult is deemed to be someone who is over the age of 16 years and is not able to look after their own affairs.
Who can apply to become a guardian?
An individual can be appointed as someone’s guardian so long as they are deemed to be a suitable person to be appointed by the court. Usually, family members apply to become a guardian for example on behalf of an elderly parent or a young adult with a disability. In some cases however, the social work department can apply to become an individual’s welfare guardian or an accountant or a solicitor can apply to become a financial guardian if there is no other suitable person.
https://www.innesjohnston.co.uk/guardianship-when-is-a-guard...
A guardianship order is an order granted by a court giving power to whoever applies to make welfare and/or financial decisions on behalf of an Adult who has been deemed to no longer have capacity to make these decisions for themselves. A guardianship order allows decisions to be made on behalf of an Adult on an ongoing basis, for example the kind of care they will receive, or it may allow them to sell a property if they need to. Guardianship orders are generally granted by the court for a period of 3 years. An Adult is deemed to be someone who is over the age of 16 years and is not able to look after their own affairs.
Who can apply to become a guardian?
An individual can be appointed as someone’s guardian so long as they are deemed to be a suitable person to be appointed by the court. Usually, family members apply to become a guardian for example on behalf of an elderly parent or a young adult with a disability. In some cases however, the social work department can apply to become an individual’s welfare guardian or an accountant or a solicitor can apply to become a financial guardian if there is no other suitable person.
https://www.innesjohnston.co.uk/guardianship-when-is-a-guard...
Discussion
Could you confirm whether the second date is before the first? That would imply that her financial affairs were handed over to a guardian or trustee before she died, as Eliza suggests. Otherwise it could refer to her estate, though it seems a bit odd to say "elle a fait l'objet de" if she was dead.