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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

au niveau du menton

English translation:

the dealer should not be penalized (or have to bear the cost)

Added to glossary by Drmanu49
Apr 30, 2019 15:57
5 yrs ago
French term

au niveau du menton

French to English Tech/Engineering Automotive / Cars & Trucks
I am currently translating some employee feedback from a car dealership and am not sure how to translate the below:

Quand la relation clientèle prends en charge une facture il ne faudrait pas que le concessionnaire soit pénalisé au niveau du menton.

any ideas how to translate "au niveau du menton" in this context?
Proposed translations (English)
4 -1 the dealer should not be penalized (or have to bear the cost)
3 +2 montant
4 when it comes to / regarding the (total) amount of sales [eligible for commissions]
5 -1 up to his neck
4 with regard to the invoiced amount
Change log

May 6, 2019 11:43: Drmanu49 Created KOG entry

Discussion

Daryo May 6, 2019:
Not worth the time??? ON the ground that "it's only 10 seconds" or "it's only some lowly disgruntled employee moaning"?

Some business that is well aware that having disgruntled employees, even at the bottom of the food chain, is not good for business paid some specialised agency to conduct this survey.

My guess is: they want to know the results. I'm sure they would be very pleased to learn that at the end of the process, in the last step, the translator decided on its own which answers could be simply ignored ...

Another aspect, as much important: if you get in the habit of giving up at the first sign of difficulties, what you are going to do when you have difficulties with an essential part of the ST that you must get right? Call at your rescue all the skills that you have honed while simply avoiding too much exertion?

BTW it's a perfectly "articulate" answer - the meaning is crystal clear if you are used to everyday French and know the context - the logic of how salespeople operate.
Francis Murphy (X) May 1, 2019:
Not worth the time This employee spent perhaps 10 seconds writing down an inarticulate answer. If this were for a witness statement in a trial, it would be worth trying to figure it all out. For this situation, I would add "[incomprehensible expression]" to the translation.
Ph_B (X) May 1, 2019:
au niveau du menton I've never heard this in this context, in France anyway, but then I may not have heard everything. I would agree if we had jusqu'au ("up to"), but here we have au niveau du, which as a native speaker I understand to mean "regarding" (spoken French). Now the other possibility is that the employee used au niveau du and actually meant jusqu'au. It wouldn't be the first time that we have to deal with less than accurate (especially spoken) French but I still find mentioning any menton rather odd - the only phrase using it that I can think of with this kind of meaning is S'en mettre/En avoir jusqu'au menton but this conveys a feeling of satisfaction, which is obviously not the case here. I would check with the client, if possible.
Louise TAYLOR May 1, 2019:
Thanks Francis That was how I read it too :) - as did my French husband.
Francis Murphy (X) May 1, 2019:
Agree, up to his neck I agree with Louise Taylor. The quote is from an employee, complaining about billing. It is colloquial. I had almost answered it this way yesterday, but deleted. Not a common expression, but "up to the chin" is used sometimes, more to describe distance or height. I guess the situation here is that the auto manufacturer's customer service is dealing with a situation and applying charges against the dealership that are excessive. The employee at the dealership is complaining about it.
Daryo May 1, 2019:
la "pénalisation" du concessionnaire lorsque "la relation clientèle prends en charge une facture"

vient du fait que le concessionnaire ne touche aucune commission.
Drmanu49 Apr 30, 2019:
Indeed it fits with my suggestion have to bear the cost (of the financial set-up).
Ph_B (X) Apr 30, 2019:
"The dealer should not be penalised with regard to the amount" or whatever a native speaker would say. This is spoken French, and au niveau de makes it a little bit colloquial - one of those annoying phrases you hear all the time in all sorts of circumstances. See Margaret Morrison's answer below.
Louise TAYLOR Apr 30, 2019:
Sorry Katie Looks like you will have to wait for a third person to get to this one. Drmanu49 and I do not agree on either the tone or the meaning.
Drmanu49 Apr 30, 2019:
No Louise, the language level is formal not colloquial at all.
Louise TAYLOR Apr 30, 2019:
OK, we will have to agree to differ. This is employee feedback rather than commercial talk, It sounds like he is disgruntled. I did ask a native speaker by the way, my husband.
Drmanu49 Apr 30, 2019:
No Louise, this is nonsense in commercial talk, whether colloquial or not. Pénalisé au niveau de must refer to some kind of financial term which menton is and has never been. Ask any native speaker and he will tell you the same. The only far fetched possibility would be that there is a dealer in the city of Menton and that would be au niveau "de Menton" and certainly not "du menton".
Louise TAYLOR Apr 30, 2019:
The same as - jusqu'au cou I disagree Drmanu49.
It is used in the same way as jusqu'au cou, in a colloquial fashion, as the English would say up to his neck.
Drmanu49 Apr 30, 2019:
This is a typo, makes no sense in French.
Louise TAYLOR Apr 30, 2019:
Up to his neck He should not be severely penalised.

Proposed translations

-1
1 hr
Selected

the dealer should not be penalized (or have to bear the cost)

(Just translate) il ne faudrait pas que le concessionnaire soit pénalisé until you get the right word which cannot be menton (absurd!!!).

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Note added at 2 heures (2019-04-30 18:39:39 GMT)
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au niveau du montant fits with my suggestion have to bear the cost.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : the dealer doesn't "bear the cost" - the ST says it's the department called "la relation clientèle" who does. // the dealer is suffering a case of "manque à gagner" i.e. not getting any commission - that's ALL the dealer is losing.
18 hrs
He should not have to bear the cost (paid by relation clientele) in return
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
1 hr

montant

I would think a typo for "montant" (more or less a homophone...)
ie shouldn't be penalised up to the full amount.
Peer comment(s):
agree Ph_B (X) : with montant. But au niveau de doesn't mean "up to the full amount", but sthg like: "where the amount is concerned/as regards the amount" in spoken French.
16 mins
agree philgoddard : Probably. And I agree with Ph_B.
5 hrs
neutral Daryo : "amount" (of the sale, as recorded for calculating bonuses etc.) the question was FR-EN, not FR-FR //probably an error generated by voice recognition software that went uncorrected. / but the "au niveau de" part is missing ...
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
19 hrs
French term (edited): au niveau du montant

when it comes to / regarding the (total) amount of sales [eligible for commissions]

"au niveau" is used, overused and abused, very often in a way that it DOESN'T mean anything related some kind of "level of ...", but "au niveau de" is supposed to mean "concerning this matter / when it comes to / regarding ... and similar"

An authorised dealer / un concessionnaire is making money from commissions on the total volume of sales - so what they are moaning about here is that they want their cut even when a sale wasn't paid for by the "client" but by "la relation clientèle" (presumably by the manufacturer's sales/marketing department).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2019-05-01 11:52:32 GMT)
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BTW "le concessionnaire" is not an employee - it's a business that is probably employing the salespeople moaning about what is counted or not in their "sales".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2019-05-01 11:56:57 GMT)
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anything related to some kind of

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2019-05-01 11:58:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

if the business doesn't get its cut (commission) it won't give any to its salespeople involved.
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Over-translation! The source text refers to an invoice (actual or hypothetical) that is being dealt with by Customer Relations (not the "sales/marketing department"). Customer Relations wouldn't bear the cost as that would bias them against complainants.
4 days
Something went wrong...
-1
1 day 1 hr

up to his neck

See the discussion point. He is complaining that he is penalised 'up to his neck'
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : nowhere near the intended meaning. It's an uncorrected autocomplete or an error in voice recognition software - it is about "montant" // CL5++ about that.
4 days
Something went wrong...
1 day 19 hrs

with regard to the invoiced amount

This is clearly a typo or voice recognition error for "montant".

www.yerres.fr/index.php/Tarifs et facturation?idpage...
SIMPLE: les factures vous sont adressées par courriel ou par courrier à votre ... Si une régularisation devait intervenir au niveau du montant de la facture,

www.vackelys.fr/aide-en-ligne/aide.../49-procedure-d-annula...
Si la commande a déjà été facturée avant l'annulation, le système génère une ... visible au niveau du montant total de la commande d'avoir qui est négatif).

This is probably about Customer Services not challenging the correctness of the invoiced amount when they offer a discount or other compensation to the customer.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 19 hrs (2019-05-02 11:10:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'"au niveau du montant" facture' gets 1.17 Google hits. So, whatever purists might think about the expression "au niveau de", it's too late to shut the stable door.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 19 hrs (2019-05-02 11:12:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, that was 1.17 million Google hits!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : yes, it's about "invoiced amounts", but it doesn't explain why this employee is moaning OTOH "1.17 million Google hits" in itself proves nothing, in one way or another,
3 days 20 hrs
You are right in wanting to understand the overall context. However, I think you are, as a consequence, over-translating this phrase. 1.17 million Google hits does, indeed, prove something, i.e. that, like it or not, the phrase concerned is in common use.
Something went wrong...
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