Nick Lingris May 6, 2019:

If a codicil trust is the same as a codicil to a trust, I give up. (Of course, I know that it isn't.)

transphy May 6, 2019:

Oh! I just got it why you insist. Nobody said there is a' codicil trust' as you are saying. It is a codicil to an existiñg trust.

transphy May 6, 2019:

Nick, why don't you look up the definition of 'codicil'? Just look at the examples I gave, in support of my answer. It's there, in black and white. Why are you trying to lead the Asker up the garden path? She told you my explanation fits her understanding.

Nick Lingris May 6, 2019:

Doggedly dogmatic, indeed! Excuse me, but I’ll continue being doggedly dogmatic. If ever there were a term such as a “codicil trust”, it could only mean “a trust created by codicil” (“εμπίστευμα που ιδρύθηκε με κωδίκελλο”). It could not mean “a codicil to a trust” — apart from the fact that trusts have amendments, not codicils. Therefore, if I were you, daira, I would have asked the client to explain the unusual term. I would still advise you to do so under the circumstances.

transphy May 6, 2019:

Thank you for the clarification. It shows that one cannot be too dogmatic!

daira (asker) May 6, 2019:

Since I posted the question, I would like to add this: this was a text drafter by a big legal firm in London. There were generally very few commas, which made things rather hard. But regarding this "codicil trust", besides sentences like the one I posted as an example, there was also a table with the various family trusts and other property arrangements with identification and reference numbers. In the table the codicil trusts all had numbers similar to other types of trusts, therefore I took it to mean a kind of extension or modification, hence the choice. No intention to cause problems. Thanks to both of you.

transphy May 6, 2019:

Yes! Yes, Nick. Except that I see it as a 'codicil to a Trust'. What's wrong in this. A 'codicil IS, or has become PART of the Trust. End of story. That is how I know a 'codicil' and that is MY opinion. I have done it myself.

Nick Lingris May 6, 2019:

by will, by codicil, by trust —χωριστά, με κόμματα What the text says is that A can provide for B in various ways such as (a) by a will, (b) by a codicil to a will, (c) by creating a trust or (d) in some other way.
There is nothing like a “codicil trust”. These are two different terms which should have been separated by a comma.

transphy May 6, 2019:

codicil | Origin and meaning of codicil by Online Etymology Dictionary
https://www.etymonline.com/word/codicil

codicil (n.) "a writing added to a will to explain, alter, add to, or revoke original terms," early 15c., from Middle French codicille, from Latin codicillus "a short ...

Yes 'codicil' is a noun, and being such might merit a comma if mentioned together with other Nouns, ie will, codicil, trust, all of these being items in their own right. But, it cannot be disputed that 'codicil', is an 'additional' document, either in a Will or a Trust, that some additional clauses/Terms/covenants are added to the original Will/Terms/covenant to bring it up to date. It is an additional UPDATE to the original.
My proposition, 'επικαιροποιημένοι/ επιπρόσθετοι όροι', εμπιστεύματος in the current case, was an attempt to paraphrase 'codicil/κωδίκελλο'. in PLAIN Greek.
I imagine a layman, going to a Solicitor to change the terms or clauses in a Will/Trust and, the Solicitor says, ' Ναι, να γράψουμε/εκδόσουμε ένα κωδίκελλο....... για το σκοπό'.
Και ο πελάτης να του λέγει, 'τι είναι το κωδίκελλο';
Είναι, λοιπόν, λάθος να πει κάποιος, αντί 'κωδίκελλο', 'επικαιροποιημένο' εμπίστευμα;

Nick Lingris May 6, 2019:

will, codicil, trust — χωριστά, με κόμματα Καταγράφω και εδώ επίσημα την αντίρρησή μου για τη δημιουργία ανύπαρκτου όρου, διότι καλό είναι να μη στραβώνονται οι μεταφραστές που θα καταλήξουν σε αυτή τη σελίδα. Είναι καθιερωμένη η διατύπωση με απαρίθμηση "will, codicil, trust", το καθένα χωριστά. Ιδού:
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q="will cod...
Ιδού και σε άλλη ερώτηση εδώ μέσα, με τα κόμματα στη σωστή θέση: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/law-contracts/1742580-lif...