Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
dessin par creux / dessin par contour
English translation:
(A sense of 3 D) where shade is low relief or hollows/contouring the "white" space as high relief
Added to glossary by
Yvonne Gallagher
Dec 3, 2019 08:25
4 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
dessin par creux / dessin par contour
French to English
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
Drawing / Painting techniques
In this text, the artist is described as adopting certain drawing techniques in his painting. I'm stuck with what is meant by 'définitions par creux' here. Any artists understand what this is and how to translate it please? Here's the whole sentence and my translation thus far:
Dans la peinture, tu reprends certains éléments de la tradition de la technique du dessin : les hachures, les ombres portées, les définitions par creux ou par contour…
In painting, you adopt some elements of traditional drawing techniques: hatching, shading, creating definition with ? and contouring.
(And, incidentally, is 'contouring' OK here?)
Dans la peinture, tu reprends certains éléments de la tradition de la technique du dessin : les hachures, les ombres portées, les définitions par creux ou par contour…
In painting, you adopt some elements of traditional drawing techniques: hatching, shading, creating definition with ? and contouring.
(And, incidentally, is 'contouring' OK here?)
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | contoured-hatching/contour lines (for low/high relief) |
Yvonne Gallagher
|
| 4 +1 | drawing using negative space / outline drawing |
B D Finch
|
| 3 | relief shading drawing/ contour drawing |
SafeTex
|
Change log
Dec 17, 2019 12:15: Yvonne Gallagher Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
5 hrs
Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Ireland
Native in English
Specializes in field
Ireland
right word, right place. everytime
Native in: English (Variants: US, Canadian, Irish, UK) 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
24
Selected
contoured-hatching/contour lines (for low/high relief)
not sure if this is about drawing or painting?
Anyway, it is about getting light and shade to give a sense of form and value, or high/low relief in forms. A sense of 3 D where the "white" or empty space is light or high relief and the shade (formed by contoured-hatching) is low relief or hollows. (see the image bolew of the pillow, where the shading is the dark folds of the pillow and the white is the part highlighted)
There is also the light and shade of straight planes formed by hatching and cross-hatching
elements of traditional drawing techniques: hatching, cross-hatching, creating definition with contouring and cross-contouring (lines).
See here
http://oer2go.org/mods/en-boundless/www.boundless.com/art-hi...
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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:42:52 GMT)
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or just CONTOUR HATCHING
(though I've usually called it "contoured" so must have heard/seen it somewhere)
https://eugeniahauss.com/2017/05/30/contour-hatching-and-cro...
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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:43:47 GMT)
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and Cross-Contour Hatching
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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:51:45 GMT)
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more examples here:
https://crosscontourbreadth.wordpress.com/
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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:52:06 GMT)
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glad to help
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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:56:20 GMT)
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anyway, in both types of hatching with both straight and curved lines the "cross", or layers of more lines across the first, form the shaded part
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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 14:16:45 GMT)
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SORRY!! the "creux"=hollows or shade so heading should have read
CROSS CONTOUR LINES/HATCHING vs CONTOUR LINES/HATCHING
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Note added at 14 days (2019-12-17 12:24:33 GMT) Post-grading
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Noting that this is about painting rather than drawing, which I wasn't sure about initially I agree it is not about "hatching" as such as that technique is for drawing.
I return to the first line of my answer where I mention
"getting light and shade to give a sense of form and value, or high/low relief in forms. A sense of 3 D where the "white" or empty space is light or high relief and the shade (formed by contoured-hatching) is low relief or hollows"
So, in painting, the shade would be formed not by "contoured hatching" but by using a mix of darker colours to form the contours. However, the technique is much the same in that it is shade contouring the light forms or highlights and giving that sense of 3D or low/high relief I also mentioned.
Anyway, it is about getting light and shade to give a sense of form and value, or high/low relief in forms. A sense of 3 D where the "white" or empty space is light or high relief and the shade (formed by contoured-hatching) is low relief or hollows. (see the image bolew of the pillow, where the shading is the dark folds of the pillow and the white is the part highlighted)
There is also the light and shade of straight planes formed by hatching and cross-hatching
elements of traditional drawing techniques: hatching, cross-hatching, creating definition with contouring and cross-contouring (lines).
See here
http://oer2go.org/mods/en-boundless/www.boundless.com/art-hi...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:42:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or just CONTOUR HATCHING
(though I've usually called it "contoured" so must have heard/seen it somewhere)
https://eugeniahauss.com/2017/05/30/contour-hatching-and-cro...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:43:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
and Cross-Contour Hatching
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:51:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
more examples here:
https://crosscontourbreadth.wordpress.com/
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:52:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
glad to help
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 13:56:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
anyway, in both types of hatching with both straight and curved lines the "cross", or layers of more lines across the first, form the shaded part
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2019-12-03 14:16:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
SORRY!! the "creux"=hollows or shade so heading should have read
CROSS CONTOUR LINES/HATCHING vs CONTOUR LINES/HATCHING
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 days (2019-12-17 12:24:33 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Noting that this is about painting rather than drawing, which I wasn't sure about initially I agree it is not about "hatching" as such as that technique is for drawing.
I return to the first line of my answer where I mention
"getting light and shade to give a sense of form and value, or high/low relief in forms. A sense of 3 D where the "white" or empty space is light or high relief and the shade (formed by contoured-hatching) is low relief or hollows"
So, in painting, the shade would be formed not by "contoured hatching" but by using a mix of darker colours to form the contours. However, the technique is much the same in that it is shade contouring the light forms or highlights and giving that sense of 3D or low/high relief I also mentioned.
Note from asker:
| Thanks Yvonne, this is helpful. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
34 mins
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Thanks:-)
|
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| agree |
Gordon Matthews
: This makes sense to me, although I can't pretend to know much about drawing. I use a camera!
20 hrs
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Many thanks:-)
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
3 hrs
relief shading drawing/ contour drawing
Two starting points that may be okay as they are. See references (one for each)
Note from asker:
| Thanks for this, SafeTex, most helpful and definitely makes sense. However, I'm now unsure about 'ombres portées', which I'd translated simply as 'shading' but which won't really work followed by 'relief shading'. Any thoughts? |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: no, it's quite clear this is about the technique using the 4 types of hatching here
6 hrs
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Hello Yvonne. No probs. I can't even draw a matchstick man and this was just a quick attempt as a starting point.
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+1
8 hrs
drawing using negative space / outline drawing
https://www.artinstructionblog.com/an-introduction-to-negati...
https://drawpaintacademy.com/positive-and-negative-space/
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Note added at 9 hrs (2019-12-03 17:42:22 GMT)
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However, I prefer the way it is expressed in the source text, to your header term; i.e. "les définitions par creux ou par contour", which I would translate as defining your subject by negative space or by outline.
Of course, when you draw concentrating on the negative space, you actually are drawing outlines, but only indirectly drawing the outline of the object(s).
https://www.blog-le-dessin.com/les-espaces-negatifs-en-dessi...
"Prenons un exemple avec une chaise, comme sur l’illustration ci-dessus. Imaginez donc découper une silhouette de chaise dans du papier. Vous obtenez ainsi une feuille blanche avec un creux qui forme les contours de l’objet. Ensuite, vous découpez les parties qui se trouvent sous les accoudoirs pour les faire apparaître. La silhouette de la chaise est maintenant complète, vous pouvez observer les pleins et les creux. Cette technique vous aide à visualiser plus concrètement les espaces négatifs, en les découpant vous-même."
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2019-12-04 10:18:58 GMT)
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Note that this is absolutely not all about hatching. That is only the first term in the list ("les hachures, les ombres portées, les définitions par creux ou par contour"). The cast shadows and use of negative space and outline are aspects of painting or drawing that define object/bodies being painted or drawn and give them the appearance of solidity and existing in space. Compare that with work by young children, where the objects drawn or painted are effectively symbolic rather than depictions of actual things having substance and existing in space.
Figurative drawing and painting is about illusion and requires an understanding of how such illusions are created. So,"hatching" is a drawing (and sometimes painting too) technique and doesn't exist in the real world, while cast shadows do exist in the real world and are used in drawing and painting to define shape and dimensionality. Negative space and outline are more problematic, particularly in painting as they are more conceptual, while colour is an amazing illusion created in our brains by processing information, from the receptors in our retinas, about the wavelengths of light.
https://drawpaintacademy.com/positive-and-negative-space/
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2019-12-03 17:42:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
However, I prefer the way it is expressed in the source text, to your header term; i.e. "les définitions par creux ou par contour", which I would translate as defining your subject by negative space or by outline.
Of course, when you draw concentrating on the negative space, you actually are drawing outlines, but only indirectly drawing the outline of the object(s).
https://www.blog-le-dessin.com/les-espaces-negatifs-en-dessi...
"Prenons un exemple avec une chaise, comme sur l’illustration ci-dessus. Imaginez donc découper une silhouette de chaise dans du papier. Vous obtenez ainsi une feuille blanche avec un creux qui forme les contours de l’objet. Ensuite, vous découpez les parties qui se trouvent sous les accoudoirs pour les faire apparaître. La silhouette de la chaise est maintenant complète, vous pouvez observer les pleins et les creux. Cette technique vous aide à visualiser plus concrètement les espaces négatifs, en les découpant vous-même."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2019-12-04 10:18:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note that this is absolutely not all about hatching. That is only the first term in the list ("les hachures, les ombres portées, les définitions par creux ou par contour"). The cast shadows and use of negative space and outline are aspects of painting or drawing that define object/bodies being painted or drawn and give them the appearance of solidity and existing in space. Compare that with work by young children, where the objects drawn or painted are effectively symbolic rather than depictions of actual things having substance and existing in space.
Figurative drawing and painting is about illusion and requires an understanding of how such illusions are created. So,"hatching" is a drawing (and sometimes painting too) technique and doesn't exist in the real world, while cast shadows do exist in the real world and are used in drawing and painting to define shape and dimensionality. Negative space and outline are more problematic, particularly in painting as they are more conceptual, while colour is an amazing illusion created in our brains by processing information, from the receptors in our retinas, about the wavelengths of light.
Note from asker:
| Thanks BD Finch, I think you've cleared this up for me. I'm going with 'hatching, cast shadows and creating definition with negative space and outline'. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: no, it's quite clear this is about the technique using the 4 types of hatching here//no, you're talking about drawing, not painting. So, HOW do you go about "defining your subject by negative space"?
19 mins
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Read it again. One doesn't paint using 4 types of hatching! Note the term before "les ombres portées" means "cast shadows"./ In drawing or painting, negative space enables situating the subject in space, and relating its plasticity to its environment.
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| agree |
Yolanda Broad
35 mins
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Thanks Yolanda
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Discussion
SafeTex