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to be in the home safely
Mar 4, 2020 15:29
4 yrs ago
58 viewers *
English term

within the meaning and intent of

English Law/Patents Law (general)
Context:

The child, AAA, is presently in substantial risk of imminent harm, abuse, or neglect, within the meaning and intent of Chapter 39, Florida Statutes, which is likely to cause their physical, mental, or emotional health to be significantly impaired due the circumstances and acts or omissions of the parents set forth above
Responses
4 +1 as (these terms) are to be understood with the intended meaning (definition) in
5 as meant by
5 in accordance with
4 +1 both the strict literal meaning of the wording and the lawmakers' intent

Discussion

Mark Robertson Mar 6, 2020:
@ B. D. Finch "But the text is about Florida, not England and Wales." Yes, but your reference is about England and Wales, hence my comment.
Daryo Mar 6, 2020:
Interesting example but not really much different from what I said.
B D Finch Mar 5, 2020:
@Daryo I don't think that's quite right. I believe that the "meaning" is the literal sense of the words as printed, while "intent" goes beyond that to mean the intent of the legislators when they passed the law. So, the meaning of the law that said London taxi cabs had to carry a bale of hay was just that. The intent was to feed the horse in the days when the cabs were horse-drawn. If a hypothetical court found a (horseless carriage) taxi driver guilty of failing to carry a bale of hay, it would be ruling according to the meaning, not the intent, of the law.
Daryo Mar 5, 2020:
two different "intent" 1 - the meaning of Chapter 39, Florida Statutes = the intended meaning of the text - what terms used and whole dispositions are supposed to mean

2 - the intent of Chapter 39, Florida Statutes = what's the general aim of this law, what is this law supposed to achieve // THAT would be relevant is some unexpected cases that won't fit with the actual text.

the law would apply to:

1 - some actions / behaviours that are described in the text of law, the terms used being understood with a meaning as intended in that law.

2 - some actions / behaviours that are NOT explicitly described in the text of the law, but would still be considered as subjected to that law taking in consideration the intent (aim) of the whole law.
Mark Robertson Mar 4, 2020:
My point is that although there is a difference between meaning and intent. The legal formula "meaning and intent" has, over time and from frequent usage, been leached of the nuance it may once have had. The actual meaning of the expression, as distinguished from the meanings of "meaning" and "intent" when considered separately, is as stated in my answer.

Responses

+1
11 mins
Selected

as (these terms) are to be understood with the intended meaning (definition) in

within the meaning and intent of Chapter 39

the terms substantial risk of imminent harm, abuse, or neglect ...likely to cause their physical, mental, or emotional health to be significantly impaired due the circumstances and acts or omissions of the parents set forth above

are to be understood as they are defined or to be understood or read within Chapter 39 (presumably defined there?)

and how these are to be used in defining "abuse" and "neglect" etc.

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Note added at 13 mins (2020-03-04 15:42:38 GMT)
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so, it's saying that if we use these terms as they are defined or to be understood, then

"The child, AAA, is presently in substantial risk of imminent harm, abuse, or neglect...."

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Note added at 13 mins (2020-03-04 15:43:26 GMT)
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intent=intention

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Note added at 9 days (2020-03-14 12:13:21 GMT) Post-grading
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glad to have helped
Note from asker:
Thank you very much :)
Peer comment(s):
agree Tina Vonhof (X) : 'within the meaning and intent of Chapter 39' is succinct.
28 mins
Many thanks:-)
agree AllegroTrans : yes, sort of "in the word and spirit of Chapter 39"
2 hrs
Many thanks:-)
neutral B D Finch : I would have agreed, but as words don't have intentions, only people (+ my dog and other animals) do, it's necessary to spell out whose intentions they are.// Someone has to have intended the meaning.
3 hrs
I never said "intentionS) splitting hairs.https://dictionary.law.com/De Intent. A determination to perform a particular act or to act in a particular manner for a specific reason; an aim or design; a resolution to use a certain means to reach an end. ...
disagree Daryo : it's the "intent" of the whole law [i.e. what's the aim/the point of it], not the "intended meaning" of any individual term used. Not so small "nuance". // You just forgot completely (didn't see?) the bit about the "intent" of the lawmakers.
11 hrs
You and BDF misreading what I actually wrote as usual. I never mentioned persons or individuals or "small nuances" AT ALL//Do you ever give it a rest??? CLUELESS!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much :)"
49 mins

as meant by

as meant by
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : very convincing refs to back 100% confidence
18 mins
We are helping the asker and not giving lectures on law.
agree philgoddard : Or "as defined by".
1 hr
Thank you,
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : CL5=100% with no explanation? Oh, Phil is repeating something I already said. How kind of him.
2 hrs
disagree AllegroTrans : over simplified
1 day 21 hrs
Go ahead, give a long lecture,
Something went wrong...
1 hr

in accordance with

Just formulaic and tautologous legalese.

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Note added at 1 hr (2020-03-04 16:52:25 GMT)
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There is no functional difference between the meaning of "meaning" and "intent" in this legal formula.
Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : there is a nuance; per the word of the statute + to achieve what the words intend
1 hr
see discussion entry
disagree B D Finch : There is an important difference and the literal meaning of wording may conflict with the lawmakers' intent. https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/administrative-la...
2 hrs
see discussion entry
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : Asker needs an explanation and yes, there is a difference
2 hrs
see discussion entry
disagree Daryo : oversimplified
10 hrs
agree philgoddard : This is fine too.
13 hrs
agree Clauwolf
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
3 hrs

both the strict literal meaning of the wording and the lawmakers' intent

It is possible for the strict literal meaning of the wording of a law to be at odds with, or defective in expressing the intention of the lawmakers who passed the act. So, "within the meaning and intent" means that if the intention of the lawmakers can be determined then a strict (nit-picking) application of the literal meaning of the words should not be allowed to frustrate that intention. Also the intention might go beyond what is contained in the wording, or with the passing of time and the arising of new situations, a purely literal interpretation may have become difficult to apply to particular circumstances.

So, evidence from e.g. the relevant debate in Parliament when an act was passed, might be relevant.

https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/administrative-la...

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Note added at 21 hrs (2020-03-05 12:49:29 GMT)
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For those who don't see the purpose of the above link, here are a couple of extracts:
"The literal rule requires courts to interpret statutes in their plain, literal and ordinary sense. The courts will not examine the intention of Parliament. This rule is used frequently as judges are not authorised to make laws and by following the statute to the letter judges cannot be accused of making law.
...

"The Golden Rule, used where the literal rule would result in an absurdity or an obnoxious result. The court investigates whether the statute wording conveys Parliament’s intention. See Sigsworth [1935] Ch 89 a son murdered his mother, she had not made a Will and her son stood to inherit her entire estate from her death. The statute was clear however, the son stood to benefit from his crime which would be unjust. The positives are that judgments are usually parallel with the legislator and errors in drafting are amended before awkward precedents are set, thus closing loopholes. Using common sense within law usually provides justice restoring public confidence in the legal system. It is problematic though as judges have power to interpret the statute as they wish, changing or adding to its meaning. It flouts the separation of powers and judges cannot be influenced by injustice without the presence of absurdity."
Peer comment(s):
disagree Mark Robertson : 1. The fundamental principle is judicial ignorance of the parliamentary process, i.e. Hansard cannot be referred to by the courts when construing statute law. The inroads made in Pepper v Hart have since been so limited that they are virtually meaningless
47 mins
But the text is about Florida, not England and Wales.
agree Daryo : the peculiarities of UK laws / judicial system can not change the meaning of terms, especially when they are used in Florida
8 hrs
Thanks Daryo
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : all over the house as usual with your "explanation". What is the point of your link?//Asker is simply looking for an explanation, not a treatise on law! Or regarding taxi drivers delivering bales of hay!
16 hrs
See added note// Some of us prefer lateral thinking to narrow mindedness.
agree AllegroTrans
2 days 6 hrs
Thanks AT
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