Jun 18, 2020 18:51
3 yrs ago
30 viewers *
Deutsch term

Schartenbeschuss

Deutsch > Englisch Sonstige Militär/Verteidigung Armor tactics, Panzertruppen
Please give suggestions in the entire sentence.

"Hierzu wird auf Ziffer 23 des Merkblattes vom 27.10.1939 "Angriff gegen eine ständige Front" weiwiesen.

Danach werden zum einbruch nur einzelne Panzer zum Schartenbeschuss und Niederkämpfen feindlicher waffen in Zwischengelände eingesetzt."

Einbruch = raid

Discussion

Clive Phillips Jun 29, 2020:
Tanks were used to engage bunker firing slits... ...in WW2, for example German attacks on the bunkers in the Maginot Line Extension. Embrasure and loophole are synonymous with slit. http://tiny.cc/vg3jrz
Chris Pr Jun 25, 2020:
Then comes the obvious repetition... Roughly condensing the source text, whilst citing the prevailing theory:
"...with embrasure fire (at enemy weaponry) and by defeating enemy weaponry on the intermediate ground..."

Did the author really intend to imply the same thing twice within the same sentence...?
Johanna Timm, PhD Jun 25, 2020:
Scharte Etymology
From Middle High German scharte, from Old High German scart, *scarti, from Proto-Germanic *skardą. Probably related to Indo-European *sker-Etymology:
a- "to cut", and thus related to German scheren. Akin to Dutch schaarde, English shard, Old Norse skarð (“notch, hack”) ( > Danish skår).
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Scharte

Duden:
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Scharte
Chris Pr Jun 25, 2020:
I still believe the stem word... ...for this term is this one:
https://dict.leo.org/german-english/schar

Which would translate here to a 'concentrated, concerted or intense firing', or similar...

Confusingly, of course, the other rendering, 'Scharte', just happens to have a military connotation, which David correctly observes has little to no relevance in the source context provided...
David Moore (X) Jun 22, 2020:
Hi! While I am reluctant to disagree with "embrasure", which is indeed a "Scharte", I feel that in 1939 the military meaning would more likely have been "gun and/or artillery emplacements".After all, the dictionary does define an embrasure as a slot or slit in the wall of a castle etc., for firing weapons through, and that to me seems an unlikely target for a WWII tank... You'd really need a sharpshooter to attack an embrasure!
sparta1978 (asker) Jun 18, 2020:
There is a reference to paragraph 23, here it is. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Bvbv3h3N9kq9zUaJ-TRdKOn6d3...

if link does not open, please let me know.

Proposed translations

+4
1 Stunde
Selected

(for) shelling the embrasures

The shelling intensified and anti-tank guns took aim at the embrasures of the blocs.
From "The Battle for the Maginot Line, 1940"
https://books.google.de/books?id=UwPMDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT120&lpg=P...
Note from asker:
Quality reference Wendy. Thank you.
Peer comment(s):

agree Lancashireman
5 Min.
Many thanks, Andrew
agree Johanna Timm, PhD : yes - confirmed by the glossary I posted below
1 Stunde
Thanks for that, Johanna.
agree Kim Metzger
3 Stunden
Thanks, Kim
agree Teangacha (X) : http://www.festungsbauten.de/NL/Bunker_NL.htm
10 Stunden
Thank you, Teangacha
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
9 Min.

barrage fire

стрельба по амбразурам

https://afreedictionary.com/german-russian/schartenbeschuss

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Note added at 11 mins (2020-06-18 19:02:13 GMT)
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Or shelling, bombardment, and so on...

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Note added at 6 days (2020-06-25 04:55:20 GMT)
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Given here (also in Russian) as "bombardment":
"Die wirkungsvollste Unterstützung im Scharten-beschuß waren wohlgezieltes Feuer aus leichten und schweren Maschinengewehren und Panzerbüchsen."

"Самая эффективная поддержкаподкрепление в бомбардировке зазубрин были хорошо-целенаправленным огнем из легких и тяжелых пулеметов и бронированных штепсельных розеток."
https://pandia.ru/text/78/194/95579-3.php

Note from asker:
excellent dictionary and your Russian reference was helpful too
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Reference comments

2 Stunden
Reference:

WWII glossary

I've found this book really helpful for a my genealogy projects:
https://www.amazon.com/Kriegsprache-Thomas-Houlihan/dp/05780...

And you can search it for terms online here:
https://tinyurl.com/ybsdr7ax

For "Schahrte" it lists: firing port, embrasure or loophole

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Note added at 2 hrs (2020-06-18 21:41:06 GMT)
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Scharte, sorry:-)
Note from asker:
Good reference. Thank you
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Björn Vrooman
6 Tage
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6 Tage
Reference:

Schartenbeschuss

A couple of DE and EN references to back up Johanna’s posts:

"Der Durchbruch erfolgt rasch und am Mittag wird Mattstall erreicht, gegen 20 Uhr besetzten deutsche Truppen Woerth und Hagenau. Zum Schartenbeschuss wurde von der Wehrmacht die 3,7 Zentimeter PAK verwendet. Noch heute lassen sich in den Panzerkuppeln der Region die Spuren dieser Geschütze erkennen."
https://www.west-wall.de/index.php/maginot-linie/werke/das-f...

This is a Panzerkuppel and they have Scharten, as you can see in the pictures: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerkuppel

Another one:
“Die Sprenggranate ist die wichtigste Granate für m.Pz.Kpfw. Sie eignet sich zum Niederkämpfen von Zielen hinter Schutzschilden (Pz.Abwehr u. Art.) und lebende Ziele (vor allem Klächenziele). Bei letzterem von Abprallerschielten Gebrauch machen. Ziele hinter Deckungen können gefasst werden, außerdem eignet sie sich zum Schartenbeschuss der Bunker…Die Panzergranate findet ihre Verwendung gegen Panzerfeind. Feuereröffnung nicht über 800 m. Sie wird auch zum Schartenbeschuß von Bunkern eingesetzt.”
https://archive.org/stream/WaffenArsenalS33DerPanzerkampfwag...

Another three examples within one document:
“Nachdem ein Zug 8,8 cm Pak die Scharten eines Bunkers links der Straße zerschossen hat, wird dieser und anschließend ein zweiter Bunker rechts der Straße von den beiden vorn eingesetzten Kp. (9. u. 11.Kp. sowie Inf.Pi.Zug) genommen…Unter Verlusten gelingt es der 2. Kp. an der geschlossenen Scharte eines Bunkers geballte Ladungen anzulegen und zu sprengen…Ungeheuer war auch die Wirkung der Pak-Geschütze im Schartenbeschuss. Der Grundsatz des Rgt.Kdrs.: 'Schmeißt dem Gegner zuerst Eisen ins Gesicht - dann erst greift an unter ununterbrochenem Feuerschutz - und wenn die letzte Patrone drauf geht!' hatte sich erneut bewährt.”
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/index.php?thread/51302-de...

Similarly [p. 245]: "Die Bunker beiderseits der Eisenbahnbrücke über die Wolga wurden durch Schartenbeschuss zum Schweigen gebracht." https://ulis-buecherecke.ch/pdf_der_krieg/der_panzerkrieg.pd...

US sources related to WWII:
“Marine light tanks made brave frontal attacks against the fortifications, even firing their 37mm guns point blank into the embrasures, but they were inadequate for the task. One was lost to enemy fire, and the other two were withdrawn. Hays called for a section of 75mm halftracks. One was lost almost immediately, but the other used its heavier gun to considerable advantage.”
https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/npswapa/extcont...

P. 25 shows a bunker with an embrasure:
https://luc.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Appendix-E...

See also:
“Modern fortified areas -called ‘hedgehog’ -are characterized by concrete and steel pillboxes, steel turrets, open emplacements, troop shelters, slit-trenches and similar installations. Pillboxes form the heart of the defense system. They are camoufbged, rise only slightly above the ground, and are located so as to provide interlocking zones of fire and mutual fire support. In the pillboxes are weapons varying from machine guns to anti-tank guns up to light field artillery, and. the ground in front of the embrasures is leveled to assure long fields of fire.”
https://media.defense.gov/2011/Apr/20/2001330082/-1/-1/0/AFD...

Pillboxes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillbox_(military)

These pillboxes do have “Schießscharten”: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillbox

And a photo taken in 1951 is described as follows: “Bazooka men, highly specialized and exactingly trained assault men, prepare to send a rocket explosive shell screaming into an embrasure of the ‘enemy’ concrete pillbox seen over the turret of the amphibious assault vehicle.”
https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/photograph-records/97-917

Plus:
“Private First Class Marvin Clevinger, Company B, Armored
Infantry Battalion, United States Army. For heroic achievement in connection with military operations against an enemy of the United States in Germany on March 26, 1945. During an attack on Schoden, Germany, an infantry platoon was suddenly pinned down by machine gun and sniper fire from a well-concealed pillbox. Private First Class Clevinger, scout, advanced 150 yards under the intense fire to within five yards of the enemy position from where he threw grenades through an embrasure in the pillbox, silencing the enemy fire.”
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-2011-06-23/html/CRE...

Same in the UK: “Type 23 pillbox, facing W. Large embrasures on three sides, and on the rear side is a splayed embrasure at the top of the elevation. Inside the open chamber is an AA mounting. Steps, with a safety rail, go down to the roofed chamber.”
https://heritage.suffolk.gov.uk/monument/MSF26338

It's even in M-W:
"2a: a protective embankment or dugout
especially : a fortified chamber mostly below ground often built of reinforced concrete and provided with embrasures"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bunker

In short, there is nothing wrong with the word embrasure.
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