Feb 18, 2021 12:28
3 yrs ago
33 viewers *
French term
société de capitalisation
French to English
Bus/Financial
Investment / Securities
Judgment involving people saying things about their assets.
"- S'agissant de la SARL AAA
Monsieur BBB indique que son patrimoine se compose de droits d'un montant ignoré à ce stade de la procédure dans la SARL AAA, société de droit luxembourgeois ayant pour objet de procéder à des investissements financiers.
Monsieur BBB produit une attestation indiquant que cette société de capitalisation ne lui distribue actuellement ni revenus ni dividendes.
Monsieur BBB précise que la SARL AAA est victime d'une escroquerie organisée par un dénommé CCC via un fonds DDD à qui des investissements auraient été confiés."
Having searched, this does appear to be a real term, not just made up on the fly. Maybe it just means "investment company". Luxembourg sometimes has some odd names for things.
"- S'agissant de la SARL AAA
Monsieur BBB indique que son patrimoine se compose de droits d'un montant ignoré à ce stade de la procédure dans la SARL AAA, société de droit luxembourgeois ayant pour objet de procéder à des investissements financiers.
Monsieur BBB produit une attestation indiquant que cette société de capitalisation ne lui distribue actuellement ni revenus ni dividendes.
Monsieur BBB précise que la SARL AAA est victime d'une escroquerie organisée par un dénommé CCC via un fonds DDD à qui des investissements auraient été confiés."
Having searched, this does appear to be a real term, not just made up on the fly. Maybe it just means "investment company". Luxembourg sometimes has some odd names for things.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | a non-dividend-paying company |
Daryo
|
| 3 +1 | capital-redemption business company |
Adrian MM.
|
| 4 | investment company |
Francois Boye
|
| 3 -1 | life assurance company |
Conor McAuley
|
References
| Definition |
philgoddard
|
Proposed translations
1 day 13 hrs
Selected
a non-dividend-paying company
the nearest to the ST - sticks to what is for sure the defining element for this SARL AAA
The literal translation "capitalisation" won't work - means something entirely else than "la capitalisation" in this ST, so a good workaround is to, instead of using a term for what this company does - (keeps adding gains to the initial capital), express exactly the same concept by saying what it does not - doesn't distribute any dividends.
Investing in Stocks With Dividends vs Stocks Without Dividends
Learn more about dividend-paying and non-dividend-paying companies
...
Investing in Stocks without Dividends
Companies that don't pay dividends on stocks are typically reinvesting the money that might otherwise go to dividend payments into the expansion and overall growth of the company. This means that, over time, their share prices are likely to appreciate in value.
...
https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/tr...
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/135.asp
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Note added at 2 days 7 hrs (2021-02-20 19:58:22 GMT)
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[Monsieur BBB produit] une attestation indiquant que cette société de capitalisation ne lui distribue actuellement ni revenus ni dividendes.
=
... a statement (/declaration?) showing (/confirming?) that this non-dividend-paying company currently does not pay him any income nor dividends
or
... a statement (/declaration?) showing (/confirming?) that currently he doesn't receive any income nor dividends from this non-dividend-paying company.
The literal translation "capitalisation" won't work - means something entirely else than "la capitalisation" in this ST, so a good workaround is to, instead of using a term for what this company does - (keeps adding gains to the initial capital), express exactly the same concept by saying what it does not - doesn't distribute any dividends.
Investing in Stocks With Dividends vs Stocks Without Dividends
Learn more about dividend-paying and non-dividend-paying companies
...
Investing in Stocks without Dividends
Companies that don't pay dividends on stocks are typically reinvesting the money that might otherwise go to dividend payments into the expansion and overall growth of the company. This means that, over time, their share prices are likely to appreciate in value.
...
https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/tr...
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/135.asp
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Note added at 2 days 7 hrs (2021-02-20 19:58:22 GMT)
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[Monsieur BBB produit] une attestation indiquant que cette société de capitalisation ne lui distribue actuellement ni revenus ni dividendes.
=
... a statement (/declaration?) showing (/confirming?) that this non-dividend-paying company currently does not pay him any income nor dividends
or
... a statement (/declaration?) showing (/confirming?) that currently he doesn't receive any income nor dividends from this non-dividend-paying company.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Francois Boye
: 'non-dividend-paying' doesn't characterise 'les compagnies de capitalisation'
14 hrs
|
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NO, that's what makes it a "société de capitalisation" // You persist in confusing "capitalisation" as used in this ST with "investing capital / investment companies" in general / of unspecified type.
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| agree |
Steve Robbie
: Agree with you if you call it a "non-distributing investment company". Capitalisation = "investment" + "doesn't pay divis".
2 days 17 hrs
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when you check it turns out that a "non-distributing investment company" is specific to Ireland, but could still work // Thanks!
|
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| neutral |
Adrian MM.
: I agree with FB. Paying no dividends is a red herring and just shows that this company is non-trading vs. non-operating.
9 days
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I really don't know what the right answer is, but yours is certainly persuasive."
-1
25 mins
Conor McAuley
France
France
Native in English
Works in field
France
Excellence, Expertise & Experience
Native in: English (Variants: Wales / Welsh, UK, Scottish, Irish, British)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
life assurance company
...or close enough as to be indistinguishable from one.
I suppose you could bake it down to investment company.
"Contrat (ou bon) de capitalisation. Les contrats (ou bons) de capitalisation fonctionnent comme un contrat d'assurance-vie, mais ne prennent en compte aucun risque lié à la durée de la vie humaine. ... Le contrat est souscrit, pour une durée déterminée, auprès d'une société de capitalisation."
https://espaceclient.allianz.fr/pmt/guide/Assurances.STANDAR...
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Note added at 1 hr (2021-02-18 14:23:27 GMT)
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To Mpoma:
Doesn't this bit fit Phil's definition:
"moyennant paiement d’une prime unique ou de versements programmés, le versement au bénéficiaire d’un capital, au terme du contrat, ou plus tôt en cas de tirage au sort."
My best shot really, the question really started to annoy me!
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Note added at 1 hr (2021-02-18 14:24:05 GMT)
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correction: "...definition?"
Note from asker:
| Thanks, but doesn't that say "this is anything BUT an insurance company"? i.e. "aucun risque lié à la durée de la vie humaine". In fact I'm puzzled in what way their contracts *do* resemble life assurance contracts... |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Steve Robbie
: Given that this an SARL, the chances of it being a life assurance company are actually pretty slim, aren't they?
1 hr
|
|
Fair enough
|
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| neutral |
Francois Boye
: This is a French view of 'capitalisation'
3 hrs
|
|
Fair enough
|
|
| disagree |
Daryo
: société de droit luxembourgeois ayant pour objet de procéder à des investissements financiers. // "procéder à des investissements financiers" = must be an insurance company? In **some cases, maybe**, but you can't equate the two concepts.
1 day 3 hrs
|
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Fair enough
|
+1
2 hrs
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: Scottish, British) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
18
capital-redemption business company
I agree with Conor that this is about life assurance. My first hunch had been a capital redemption scene - one of the few cases where redemption and not repayment collocates with capital, likewise a capital redemption reserve.
I had been tempted to enter CR life-business co. until I saw the second example sentence and second weblink hinting at what the problem might be.
Those who had been at the FRE/SPA-ENG life assurance translation seminar - 30 years ago - on the erswthile Queen Elizabeth College campus of London Uni. in Kensington might recall this counter-intuitive 'capitalisation' term.
I had been tempted to enter CR life-business co. until I saw the second example sentence and second weblink hinting at what the problem might be.
Those who had been at the FRE/SPA-ENG life assurance translation seminar - 30 years ago - on the erswthile Queen Elizabeth College campus of London Uni. in Kensington might recall this counter-intuitive 'capitalisation' term.
Example sentence:
IATE: insurance [FINANCE > insurance] Council fr capitalisation COM en capital redemption Council
A Capital Redemption (CR) version of our plan will mature after a certain period of time (maximum term of 99 years). The CR version is different from Life Assurance contracts, as there is *no* requirement for a life assured.
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Francois Boye
: It's capital growth rather than capital redemption
1 hr
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We need to know what the 'escroquerie' consisted of, namely whether a *Luxembourg* capital redemption or mortgage endowment scam, a capital growth con-trick or a hybrid of all three.
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| neutral |
Daryo
: there is a strong parallel with a "Capital Redemption" type of investment plan, but there is nothing to imply that it's done by some kind of insurance company.
1 day 9 hrs
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My second example sentence shows that no life assurance need be linked be at all. ...' The CR version is different from Life Assurance contracts, as there is *no* requirement for a life assured. '
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| agree |
Helene_J
: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/insurance-policyhol... - comp. with philgoddard's def of "capitalisation", "capital redemption" seems to fit the bill.
3 days 19 hrs
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Thanks, Helene. This is a literal translation staring everyone in the face.
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| neutral |
Steve Robbie
: Agree with Daryo. While the term société de capitalisation does appear to be used in some insurance contexts, the context (SARL + party being asked to provide an attestation that he does not receive dividends) suggests a private, non-insurance company.
4 days
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Pls. re-read my second example sentence where no life assurance need be linked, besides which no payment of fees or dividends suggests a non-trading company and is singling out the 'dividends' to put the cart before the horse.
|
4 hrs
Francois Boye
United States
United States
Native in French
United States
An economic geek with social skills
Native in: French 
Works in: English to French, French to English, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
36
investment company
A US perspective
What Is an Investment Company?
An investment company is a corporation or trust engaged in the business of investing the pooled capital of investors in financial securities. This is most often done either through a closed-end fund or an open-end fund (also referred to as a mutual fund). In the U.S., most investment companies are registered with and regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) under the Investment Company Act of 1940.
An investment company is also known as "fund company" or "fund sponsor." They often partner with third-party distributors to sell mutual funds.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2021-02-18 17:00:44 GMT)
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https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investmentcompany.asp#:...
What Is an Investment Company?
An investment company is a corporation or trust engaged in the business of investing the pooled capital of investors in financial securities. This is most often done either through a closed-end fund or an open-end fund (also referred to as a mutual fund). In the U.S., most investment companies are registered with and regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) under the Investment Company Act of 1940.
An investment company is also known as "fund company" or "fund sponsor." They often partner with third-party distributors to sell mutual funds.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2021-02-18 17:00:44 GMT)
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https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investmentcompany.asp#:...
Note from asker:
| Thanks. But if you follow the link given by philgoddard in his reference, it appears that, if that definition is right, this sort of company only invests in cash. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's just that you provide no *proof* that "société de capitalisation" = "investment company" |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: where does it say that this type of companies NEVER pay any dividents or other form of revenues to investors??? OTOH, what it DOES say is: The money pooled is invested, and the investors share any profits and losses incurred by the company ...
23 hrs
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Please read the paragraph coming after the key takeaways in the attachment. How come you didn't read the first sentence: An investment company is a corporation or trust engaged in the business of investing the pooled capital of investors in .financial .?
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| agree |
Adrian MM.
: capital investment co. would work well for Lux, if this is not a capital redemption scam.
10 days
|
Reference comments
1 hr
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
28
Reference:
Definition
Société de capitalisation, établissement financier qui garantit à ses adhérents le versement, à une échéance déterminée, d’une somme fixe calculée en proportion de leurs apports et des intérêts capitalisés.
http://www.dictionnaire-academie.fr/article/A9C0616?history=...
http://www.dictionnaire-academie.fr/article/A9C0616?history=...
Note from asker:
| Thanks, great find. I wonder what the name of such an establishment would be the Anglo-Saxon universe (Conan the Barbarian, etc.)? Your reference seems to say that this is purely about cash investment, i.e. currently generating €0 if you're lucky, not shares, bonds, funds, etc. |
Discussion
'Monsieur BBB précise que la SARL AAA est victime d'une escroquerie organisée par un dénommé CCC via un fonds DDD à qui des investissements auraient été confiés'
makes no difference whatsoever when it comes to defining what would be "une société de capitalisation" in contrast to some unspecified / general type of "société ... ayant pour objet de procéder à des investissements financiers".
This is abnormal! Please read the explanation: 'Monsieur BBB précise que la SARL AAA est victime d'une escroquerie organisée par un dénommé CCC via un fonds DDD à qui des investissements auraient été confiés'
"Monsieur BBB produit une attestation indiquant que cette société de capitalisation ne lui distribue actuellement ni revenus ni dividendes."
That sounds to me like more than just some subtle / indirect / veiled hint.
It says it couldn't be more explicitly that no revenues / dividends of any kind are being paid by la SARL AAA to their investors, and you still keep quoting as "reference" information about the general type of "investment companies" that DO pay dividends.
Let's take the example of a mutual fund, which is an investment company.
*The capital of the mutual fund increases with the number of members
* The reason why members trust mutual funds is that they can generate accumulated profits and high return investments in the long term for their clients.
IN the United States, mutual funds are a king of extra pension funds for the middle class.
Since an attestation is required to prove that it doesn't pay out dividends, it presumably isn't a "special type" of company in the sense that it's defined by law. The "accumulation" aspect must presumably be laid down in its own constitutive documents, or otherwise by agreement between the owners.
HERE "capitalisation" would mean that all gains are added to the initial capital invested, without paying any interim dividends.