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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

ça sonne même l’import

English translation:

it even sounds like it comes from somewhere else.

Added to glossary by Marge Hogarty
Apr 27, 2021 11:04
3 yrs ago
47 viewers *
French term

ça sonne même l’import

Non-PRO French to English Social Sciences Government / Politics Algeria
**'D’où vient ce mot, “hirak” ? Ça sonne pas algérien, et ça sonne même l’import. Je préfère le mot “révolution”, tagrawla en kabyle ou thoura en derdja,' s’exclame un manifestant devant un groupe de jeunes originaires de la wilaya arabophone de Sétif.**

Hi everyone,

I am translating an article about the Hirak movement in Algeria. I am wondering if "import" here simply means "foreign", or if there is more of a nuance to it?

Many thanks for your suggestions,
Anam
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 it even sounds like it comes from somewhere else.
2 +4 it even sounds like an import
3 +1 it sounds like a borrowed/loan word
4 It even smells import(s)
3 it even sounds alien
Change log

Apr 29, 2021 15:22: Marge Hogarty Created KOG entry

Apr 29, 2021 22:30: philgoddard changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Catharine Cellier-Smart, Yvonne Gallagher, philgoddard

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Discussion

A Zafar (asker) Apr 29, 2021:
Thank you SO much, everyone, for such a detailed discussion. You have all helped me greatly! As always, I wish I could give points to more than one person.
Lisa Rosengard Apr 28, 2021:
I'd use a general phrase to explain that it comes from outside of Algeria.
Conor McAuley Apr 27, 2021:
Thanks Saeed, that's very interesting. What I have read as research for this question confirms what you say.
Saeed Najmi Apr 27, 2021:
Berbers in general are very language-conscious indeed, but I don't think it is an issue of language rejection here; otherwise, the author would have demonstrated their attitude towards the entire tongue and not only that particular term. The other thing is berbers in North Africa generally have an assimilative standpoint vis a vis Arabic, the official language in those countries.
Conor McAuley Apr 27, 2021:
Could there also be an ethnic identity element to the person's remark as well?

"The ethnic Berbers are divided into many groups with varying languages. The largest of these are the Kabyles, who live in the Kabylie region east of Algiers, the Chaoui of North-East Algeria, the Tuaregs in the southern desert and the Shenwa people of North Algeria."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Algeria#Ethnic...


But I don't think this affects the translation, it's just a point of interest.
Saeed Najmi Apr 27, 2021:
The term ''harak'' also ''hirak'',as you rightly mention, is an Arabic word. It draws its roots from the stem ''haraka'' move. I think the reason the author says ''ça sonne même l’import'' is that he feels it is a reductionism of what the phenomenon really is. It is a premeditated attempt to deny the revolutionary nature of the movement. To speak of a ''harak'' might go by unnoticed compared to speaking of an upheaval, an uprising or a revolution. Additionally, from a linguistic perspective, though word ''harak'' means ''move'' or ''movement'', it is paradoxically a dormant word in the Arabic lexicon; it is not actively used in Arabic at all.
Thomas Miles Apr 27, 2021:
'haraak' = 'movement' in Modern Standard Arabic How does this make it foreign?
Daryo Apr 27, 2021:
yes, there is a connotation that that word "hirak" is some kind of intruder in Algerian Arabic.
Carol Gullidge Apr 27, 2021:
agree with Suzie it's not just foreign, but it has infiltrated the language. This somehow makes it appear more sinister in this context!
Suzie Withers Apr 27, 2021:
I read it as meaning that it's derived from a foreign language, a loan word. But I might be wrong...

Proposed translations

+2
5 hrs
Selected

it even sounds like it comes from somewhere else.

This means the same as the other suggestions, but the tone is different. I'm looking at the absence of "ne" in the first clause of that sentence.
Peer comment(s):
agree Timothy Rake : I like this phrasing Marge
29 mins
Thanks
agree Shilpa Baliga
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Marge, I like the natural sound to this, and that it still carries the essential meaning behind "import"!"
+4
20 mins

it even sounds like an import

The word was used in several other countries before Algeria, it appears.

I don't think it would be right to use the word foreign, import is fine.


https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirak

Hirak est un mot arabe signifiant étymologiquement « mouvement ». Il désigne des mouvements de contestations populaires dans les pays du monde arabe. Il a servi notamment à désigner :

le mouvement du Sud, manifestations (2009) puis le mouvement politique issu de celui-ci, au Yémen ;

Mouvement populaire irakien, parti politique irakien fondé en 2011 ;

le mouvement populaire du Rif, au Maroc, depuis 2016 ;

***les manifestations de 2019-2020 en Algérie, commencées le 16 février 2019 pour protester dans un premier temps contre la candidature d'Abdelaziz Bouteflika à un 5e mandat puis pour le départ du régime et un changement du système politique en place.***

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2021-04-27 11:27:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The underlying message is that the speaker wants the movement to be defined differently, to BE different, to those with the name same in other countries.

That's my interpretation, anyway.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2021-04-27 11:28:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

correction: same name

Peer comment(s):
agree Carol Gullidge
4 mins
Thanks Carol!
agree philgoddard
1 hr
Thanks Phil!
agree Gladis Audi, DipTrans : Spot on. Il est important ici de garder cette notion d'idée importée (par des influences externes à la vraie révolution).
19 hrs
Merci Gladis !
agree Sanjin Grandić : That is how I would have translated also but you were faster lol -so I just orovided an alternate translation, hope you get the points, cheers ---@ Conor you are welcome man-"I hope I'm hitting the ball with my head ;-)"--yes you are lol- have a great day
23 hrs
Thanks Grandić, and thanks for that thing the other day! I hope I'm hitting the ball with my head ;-)
Something went wrong...
1 hr

it even sounds alien


The person in the ST refers to the term ''hirak'' as a word imported from another context. It is uncommon, weird and doesn't call a spade a spade. They prefer the word ''revolution'' to describe what is going on there.
The word ''hirak'' is alien to Algerian Arabic
Peer comment(s):
neutral Sanjin Grandić : Not a bas idea Saeed- @ You are welcome Saeed-:)
1 day 22 hrs
I know, thanks Sanjin
Something went wrong...
+1
10 hrs

it sounds like a borrowed/loan word

Hello
I have not read all the discussion so maybe someone said this but we do have two expressions in English for such words that should be considered
Reference:

https://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words04/structure/borrowed.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loanword

Peer comment(s):
agree Cyril Tollari : sounds like a borrowing?
10 hrs
Thanks Cyril
Something went wrong...
23 hrs

It even smells import(s)

Just an alternate approach to "it sounds" and the like.
Just to diversify.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2021-04-28 11:00:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or maybe better but too late now It even smells like import.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 0 min (2021-04-28 11:04:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

a bit colloquial though.
Example sentence:

It smells like import to me.

Something went wrong...
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