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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

maître des affaires

English translation:

ringleader, mastermind

Added to glossary by Mpoma
Jun 17, 2021 13:03
2 yrs ago
40 viewers *
French term

maître des affaires

French to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Fraud trial in Luxembourg. This is the writ of summons issued by BBB claiming that AAA, CCC and DDD did bad things.

"Tout au long des négociations, le Groupe AAA s'est conduit en véritable maître des affaires en ce qui concerne les faits délictueux à rencontre de BBB en sa qualité d'actionnaire majoritaire de CCC (à hauteur de 57%)."

"Il résulte des faits longuement développés dans la présente assignation que les sociétés du Groupe AAA ont participé activement tout le long des négociations de la cession litigieuse.
Ils étaient véritablement les maîtres des affaires (points 10 et 25 de la présente assignation)."

"AAA S.A. et DDD S.A. se sont comportés comme de véritables maîtres des affaires (rappelons que CCC n'est qu'une coquille vide, sans employé et sans ressource humaine pour mener une négociation d'une telle ampleur)."

In my database I have "lead counsel", but this is clearly not right here. Something like "ringleader" seems to fit the context...
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 mastermind
3 +2 orchestrator
4 the true decision maker // the true person in charge/in control
4 -1 the kingpin
Change log

Jun 28, 2021 17:49: Katarina Peters Created KOG entry

Jun 28, 2021 18:11: Mpoma changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/621508">Katarina Peters's</a> old entry - "maître des affaires"" to ""mastermind, ringleader""

Discussion

Daryo Jun 26, 2021:
@ ph-b timestamps for answers and discussions are not easy to compare, but just out of curiosity I took the trouble to do it.

Your first contribution to "Discussion" was made [14:03 Jun 18] exactly 24 hours after the question was asked [14:03 2021-06-17]

I posted my answer 37 minutes later [1 day 37 mins after the question was asked], without being aware of what's in "Discussion" as when I started looking for an answer there was still nothing in "Discussion".

La morale de cette histoire? Nous avons des méthodes similaires, qui incluent "commencer par vérifier à la source ce que le terme veut bien dire", au lieu de se lancer immédiatement à la recherche d'une traduction pour une interprétation présumée du terme.
AllegroTrans Jun 21, 2021:
@ SafeTex and ph-b and all I have to say that I think ph-b's "neutral" term is persuasive, albeit I did agree with "mastermind".
At the end of the day, any reader of the text will be able to mentally transfer the word "mastermind" (or similar) to the term, being that this was (allegedly) a crime or tort (or both).
So it looks like the more formal expression might be the correct way to go.
ph-b (X) Jun 21, 2021:
SafeTex, I wouldn't know whether "ringleader", etc. can be used for a company. That's for native speakers to decide. My point is that the author of the text cannot have used a Conseil d'État-defined term, in a legal document, qui plus est, just to mean "ringleader" or "mastermind". We have words for those in French. I still think (assuming Luxembourg is like France in this respect) that this is about having ultimate control over a company or several companies. Which is not to say that a company didn't play a leading role in what Mpoma called "bad things", but I don't think that is what the text says here.
SafeTex Jun 21, 2021:
@ph-b and all Hello

On your conclusion, So, maître de l'affaire doesn’t mean “ringleader”, as in a person who masterminded and did “bad things”, as you say. .

I don't go along with this. The question is surely whether "ringleader" etc. can be used for a company and I'd say it can.

Regards

SafeTex
ph-b (X) Jun 19, 2021:
maître de l'affaire (2) As used here, affaire is a synonym for entreprise or société. See the definition from Conseil d’État I posted earlier, which makes it clear maître de l’affaire is the person in charge of a company (put simply) and which Daryo has since used in their answer. So, maître de l'affaire doesn’t mean “ringleader”, as in a person who masterminded and did “bad things”, as you say. This ain’t no Charlie Croker! “Ringleader” backtranslates as chef/meneur, which 1) is the wrong meaning and which 2) would be the wrong register anyway (I can’t imagine one of the highest courts in France* using these terms). As a legal term defined by Conseil d’État, maître de l’affaire ought to be translated accordingly and not by a description/explanation in layman terms. Linguee (I know...) suggests "principal"/"beneficiary", which isn't far from my initial "beneficial owner". The sources quoted are supposedly reliable. No time to check, but might be worth the effort. *I realise your text is from Luxembourg, but unless someone comes up with a Lux. definition, I’ll just assume this applies here too.
ph-b (X) Jun 18, 2021:
maître de l'affaire "Le maître de l’affaire a été défini par le Conseil d’État[2] comme la personne qui, cumulativement, a « l’entier pouvoir de gestion économique et financière de l’entreprise, peut disposer sans contrôle des fonds sociaux et n’est ainsi pas placée dans la même situation qu’un autre associé ou dirigeant ». Le maître de l’affaire est celui qui exerce « seul la maîtrise administrative, financière et commerciale de cette société »[3]. (https://www.filor-avocats.com/actualites/droit-fiscal/notion... Considérant... qu'une personne reconnue comme étant le seul maître de l'affaire, qui a ainsi l'entier pouvoir de gestion économique et financière de l'entreprise, peut disposer sans contrôle des fonds sociaux et n'est ainsi pas placée dans la même situation qu'un autre associé ou dirigeant,..." (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/ceta/id/CETATEXT000030704422/... Perhaps "actual owners"/"beneficial owners" since CCC is described as an empty shell?
AllegroTrans Jun 18, 2021:
For Francois maître, maitre
Learn to pronounce
nom et adjectif

1.
Personne qui exerce une domination.
Personne qui a pouvoir et autorité (sur qqn) pour se faire servir, obéir.
Le maître et l'esclave.
Possesseur d'un animal domestique.
Ce chien reconnaît son maître et sa maîtresse.
Personne qui dirige.
h
Similar:
chef
Être (le) maître quelque part diriger, commander.
Être son maître être libre et indépendant.
Personne qui possède une chose, en dispose.
h
Similar:
possesseur

propriétaire

2.
Personne compétente pour diriger.

Proposed translations

+5
18 mins
Selected

mastermind

:)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2021-06-17 13:44:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or, try ''prime organizer''
Note from asker:
Thanks. I can't actually see an expression like this really being used in a legal context, a bit too informal, but it's certainly on the right lines...
Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans
2 hrs
Thank you, Allegro
agree Samuël Buysschaert
4 hrs
Thank you, Samuël
disagree Francois Boye : Dans les documents de procédure et principalement dans les ordonnances, les jugements et les arrêts, les avocats sont appelés"Maitres" ou en abrègé M°.
5 hrs
mais, à mon avis, cette personne n'était pas un avocat, selon le contexte...
agree Julie Barber
5 hrs
Merci, Julie
agree philgoddard : I don't agree that this is too informal.
22 hrs
Thanks, philgoddard
neutral Daryo : Doesn't really fit here // in this particular text, it could be twisted/reinterpreted that way, but the term in itself has no negative connotations at all - it's simply about having or not real/effective control over some business of any kind.
1 day 31 mins
OK, thank you for your opinion, Daryo.
agree Eliza Hall
1 day 8 hrs
Thank you, Eliza.
agree SafeTex : Yes. This is not the official charge but a description of the part played by someonie
3 days 11 hrs
Yes, thank you SafeTex.
neutral ph-b (X) : This is not a translation, but merely an explanation, of what the text says; the register is wrong. See discussion box.
16 days
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Went for my original suggestion, "ringleaders" in the end, which has some different connotations, but this is the "most helpful" alternative"
+2
4 hrs

orchestrator

Another option (although I think that both ringleader and mastermind are fine).
Peer comment(s):
disagree Francois Boye : Dans les documents de procédure et principalement dans les ordonnances, les jugements et les arrêts, les avocats sont appelés"Maitres" ou en abrègé M°.
49 mins
It's talking about the criminals...
agree AllegroTrans : To counter ridiculous disagree by Francois
4 hrs
Thanks...
agree Daryo : maybe not the usual way of expressing it, but certainly not wrong.
17 hrs
neutral philgoddard : This is perfectly OK, but it's just a synonym of the previous answer.
18 hrs
I suggested it since the asker indicated that they were looking for something less informal than "mastermind".
agree SafeTex : A fine alternative to another good answer and to counter the disagree and even the neutral as you are right there too
3 days 6 hrs
Thanks, SafeTex!
neutral ph-b (X) : This is not a translation, but merely an explanation, of what the text says; the register is wrong. See discussion box.
16 days
Something went wrong...
1 day 37 mins
French term (edited): véritable maître des affaires

the true decision maker // the true person in charge/in control

literally "the true master of the business"

Yew, it's the idea of being the "mastermind", but ...

I don't think that "maître des affaires" has in itself any negative connotations - anyone having a good grip on a perfectly legitimate business they are running would also be seen as "maître des affaires" - so I would suggest a more "neutral" variant.

see:

LA NOTION DE MAÎTRE DE L’AFFAIRE PRÉCISÉE PAR LE CONSEIL D’ÉTAT
Mis à jour le 28 février 2017

...
Le maître de l’affaire a été défini par le Conseil d’État comme la personne qui, cumulativement, a « l’entier pouvoir de gestion économique et financière de l’entreprise, peut disposer sans contrôle des fonds sociaux et n’est ainsi pas placée dans la même situation qu’un autre associé ou dirigeant ». Le maître de l’affaire est celui qui exerce « seul la maîtrise administrative, financière et commerciale de cette société »[3].

https://www.filor-avocats.com/actualites/droit-fiscal/notion...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2021-06-18 14:05:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

BTW there IS a kind of "legal formality" if le Conseil d’État has taken the trouble to give a definition of the term.

A term that keeps popping up in "droit des affaires" and is used by the taxman - doesn't sound much "informal" to me.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2021-06-18 14:11:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

le Groupe AAA s'est conduit en véritable maître des affaires
=
the AAA group has acted as the true decision maker

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2021-06-26 12:41:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

another sample, showing that there is no special "Luxemburg variant of meaning" for "maître des affaires", that even in Luxemburg it still means nothing more than "who has the effective control of the business / who really runs it"



12° Le tribunal refuse le caractère privilégié au titre de salaire impayé d’une créance déclarée dans le cadre de la faillite d’une SARL, au motif que le prétendu «salarié «était associé et gérant unique de la SARL, tout lien de subordination étant alors exclu «alors que (l’intéressé) était en fait et en droit seul maître des affaires menées par la SARL» .
Trib . arr . Luxembourg, 14 novembre 1997, jugement commercial n° 716/97, faillite n° 170/9

https://data.legilux.public.lu/eli/etat/leg/recueil/societes...

a "boring" legal term, nothing fit to be used as clickbait or in the gutter press ...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2021-06-26 12:53:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


https://luxemburgensia.bnl.lu/cgi/getPdf1_3.pl?mode=page&id=...
Peer comment(s):
neutral SafeTex : this is not a charge (accusation) but the lawyer describing the role of the company so negative connotatoins is EXACTLY what he/she wants. It's like when lawyers and/or the press accuse the defendant of being a monster. Your translation is bland
2 days 17 hrs
"a charge"??? here it's about "being in charge of"// a "driver" is still a driver, whether driving an ambulance to the hospital or the getaway vehicle for a bunch of trigger happy bank robbers => "maître des affaires" IS A BLAND ("neutral") LEGAL TERM.
Something went wrong...
-1
10 days

the kingpin

Peer comment(s):
disagree AllegroTrans : How is that term different in substance from the terms to which you have so stridently posted disagrees?
1 hr
The Kingpin is better than the mastermind!
Something went wrong...
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