Glossary entry

Portuguese term or phrase:

Eu e quem sei não ser

English translation:

I and the one I don't know how to be

Added to glossary by Oliver Simões
Apr 27, 2022 15:19
2 yrs ago
20 viewers *
Portuguese term

Eu e quem sei não ser

Portuguese to English Other Poetry & Literature Lyrical poetry
Talvez que no parque antigo
A festa volte a ser.
Ficaram entre as sombras
Das áleas apertadas
Eu e quem sei não ser.
-- Fernando Pessoa

He's talking about a weird party. I think "exist" is a good translation for "ser". Not sure, though, where to place "not".

1) I and who I know not to exist OR 2) I and who I know to not exist OR 3) either way?

I considered "someone" and "the one" instead of "who", but discarded both because it would make the line too long compared to the rest.

L2: EN_US
Register: poetic
Change log

Apr 29, 2022 13:11: Oliver Simões changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2407412">Oliver Simões's</a> old entry - "Eu e quem sei não ser"" to ""I and the one I don&apos;t know how to be""

Apr 29, 2022 13:11: Oliver Simões changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2407412">Oliver Simões's</a> old entry - "Eu e quem sei não ser"" to ""I and the one I don\'t know how to be""

Discussion

José Patrício Apr 29, 2022:
Olá Oliver
Está bem. Isto de conotação das palavras é um bocado complicado.
Saber é mais caregórico do que believe só este verbo é um pouco mais eufónico.
Afinal acreditar é saber. Eu acredito em Deus, sei que Deus existe.
Santas tardes
Believe – be certain of, be credulous, have no doubt… - BELIEVE Synonyms: 93 Synonyms & Antonyms for BELIEVE | Thesaurus.com
Oliver Simões (asker) Apr 29, 2022:
saber Obrigado pelo seu feedback, José Patrício. Descartei esta interpretação porque "believe" não me parece uma boa tradução para "saber". O verbo usado ("sei") é mais forte do que um simples "creio" ou "acredito". Se qualquer forma, vale a pena conferir: https://www.aulete.com.br/saber
José Patrício Apr 29, 2022:
Eu acho que aqui temos algo que se relaciona com os heterónimos. Com eles ele quer passar despercebido, a sua timidez desaparece.
Imagine aquelas senhoras tímidas que não são capazes de dizer um piropo e quando vão para os fóruns da internet, é só declarações de amor profundo e sentido…
Portanto
3. Só eu, e eu sem mim (Only I, and I without myself)
4. Eu e quem sei não ser (I and ...?)
Ele está lá, sem ele, incarna um heterónimo que irá escrever sobre o assunto.
É assim o FP, tão profundo que só o começámos a ler quando os seus livros vinham do estrangeiro porque por cá ninguém o entendia…
Portanto a tradução do Heli Alves parece-me corresponder a esta minha ideia:
I and who I believe not to be
(Eu e quem sei não ser).
Oliver Simões (asker) Apr 27, 2022:
Another possible interpretation Compared with others stanzas, we have:

1. Eu e minha agonia (I and my agony)
2. Quem fui e quem sou (Who I was and who I am)
3. Só eu, e eu sem mim (Only I, and I without myself)
4. Eu e quem sei não ser (I and ...?)

There seems to be a progression in terms of the materiality of his being from 1 to 4. In 1, his self is clearly delineated between him and his agony. In 2, he sees himself in terms of linear time (he in the past and he in the present). In 3, he says that "only [he], and [he] without [him]self" was left at the party. Does this mean he was company-less or nobody was left?

I don't believe "I and whom I know not" is a viable option. It translates as "Eu e quem não sei/conheço". It seems like we are left with two possible interpretations for no. 4.

A) I and who I know I am not. (Eu e quem sei que não sou.)
B) I and who I know not how to be. (Eu e quem não sei ser.)

I'm leaning towards B. It seems to indicate the total annihilation of the self, a non-being so to speak. I'm thinking this could be a hyperbaton (i.e. an inversion in the order of the syntactic elements). He proably meant "Eu e quem não sei ser". I'd like to hear your guys' opinions/insights. Thank y'all.

Proposed translations

+1
2 hrs
Selected

I and the one I don't know how to be

"who I know not" in portuguese would be "quem não conheço", "who I am not" would be "quem não sou", in this case he talks about a person he does not know how to be.
Note from asker:
Thank you, Ana. I'm leaning towards this interpretation unless I am convinced otherwise.
Peer comment(s):

agree Verginia Ophof
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Ana. I changed the word structure a bit to fit the poem better: I and who I know not how to be."
+1
12 mins

I and who I know I am not.

"quem sei não ser" has the implied subject "I". So, as a Portuguese native speaker, here is a little help.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 minutos (2022-04-27 15:47:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Não ser" is the direct complement of the verb "sei". What does he know? He know who he is not.
This is a tricky sentence is Portuguese.
Note from asker:
In the previous stanza, he mentioned "eu e sem mim", so here it seems like he is talking about a third person. I agree with your comment about the implied subject being "I", but, in my view, it applies to "sei" only, not necessarily to "não ser".
Indeed, this is a tricky one, Lígia. I just posted a comment on the DB. I appreciate your comments/feedback. Thank you.
Peer comment(s):

agree Marjolein Snippe : or "I and the one (who) I know I am not"
18 hrs
Thanks.
Something went wrong...
50 mins

I and whom I know not

I and whom I know not
Something went wrong...
+1
6 hrs

I and who I believe not to be

Sugestão.
Peer comment(s):

agree José Patrício
1 day 14 hrs
Something went wrong...
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