Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

affirmation de la qualité héréditaire

English translation:

Statutory declaration of entitlement to inherit; (USA, if sworn) Affidavit of Heirship

Added to glossary by Adrian MM.
Dec 26, 2023 11:14
4 mos ago
35 viewers *
French term

affirmation de la qualité héréditaire

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) Acte de notoriété
Bonjour il s'agit du titre d'un paragraphe d'un acte de notoriété.
J'imagine qu'il doit exister un façon formelle de traduire ces mots ?
Je vous remercie beaucoup pour votre aide
Change log

Dec 29, 2023 12:54: Adrian MM. changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2321939">Lucia28's</a> old entry - "affirmation de la qualité héréditaire "" to ""(Statutory) declaration of entitlement to inherit""

Discussion

SafeTex Dec 29, 2023:
@Emmanuella and all Hello

I agree entirely with you about people including multiple references and citations in their responses that would take hours to read each time.
So we end up not looking at their answers at all, which is a shame and defeats the purpose.
Regards
AllegroTrans Dec 28, 2023:
Re ChatGPT I sent "it" (or he/she as ProZ would have it) a Proz.com message yesterday but have not received a response.
Emmanuella Dec 28, 2023:
A la 1ère ligne vous trouvez 'qualité d'heritier' et non' qualité héréditaire'( cf. Mpoma)
A la 10ème ligne, vous trouvez 'affirmation'. Vous n'êtes pas obligé de lire tout le document...
Par contre, certaines personnes postent parfois des 'tonnes de références' qui font tourner la tête et surtout remplissent l'espace inutilement.
SafeTex Dec 28, 2023:
@Emmanuella and all I've wanted to say for a long time that you there is a place for posting references, and moreover, it is very hard for others when you post a reference to a large document without any comments to help us see what you want us to look at.
We are often just confronted with a ton of text and no idea why you referenced it.
Mpoma Dec 27, 2023:
@Bourth Re your ngram analysis: interesting, but one thing I had noticed in my gsearches is that "qualité héréditaire" is used A LOT by biologists. So I think we might need more evidence about use by French jurists.
Bourth Dec 27, 2023:
No, AllegroTrans, you can't marry ChatGPT, but there will come a time when it will have "short King's counsel in disarrayed feud had sexual relations (6)" all translators.
AllegroTrans Dec 27, 2023:
What ya didn't know about ChatGPT "This person has a SecurePRO™ card. Years of experience: 1"
So are we now to believe that AI has the status of a "person"? And presumably ability to inherit?
What next? Can you marry it?
Emmanuella Dec 27, 2023:
En fait, j'avais posté ce lien pour préciser la signification du terme 'affirmation'.
Toutefois, la ' qualité d'héritier' me semble plus probable.
On parle de 'réserve héréditaire' .
Mpoma Dec 27, 2023:
@Emmanuella Yes, you link to a Code which uses "qualité d'héritier", not "qualité héréditaire". AllegroT says the latter is "standard wording", so I surmise he's come across it many times, which is good enough for me. When I searched, I couldn't see many signs of legal usage of it from ghits personally.
SafeTex Dec 27, 2023:
@all Hello

I'm going to go against the flow here but the examples you come up with just show that you don't know how AI works or if you prefer, how to use it.

As for Proz using it, they are clearly doing it wrongly, probably just feeding it the source text and perhaps not even the field etc, which I commented on some time ago.

When prompted correctly, the "village idiot" can produce remarkable results in most languages that would take you lot days or weeks to produce, and with a higher accuracy than I often see on this forum, which is FAR from foolproof. And AI is still in its infancy!!!

You remind me of the chess world in the past who said that computers would NEVER be able to beat chess masters. Top chess engines today THRASH chess masters EVERY SINGLE TIME.
AllegroTrans Dec 26, 2023:
Mpoma Agree 100% with what you say about ChatGPT, but as for more context I don't think we really need it. This is standard wording in this type of notarised instrument, drawn up as the French equivalent to probate. I usually encounter it as a paragraph heading.
Mpoma Dec 26, 2023:
Dodgy. More context please. Agree with Annette. This is a program which does statistical processing (SP). Nothing more. Most of the stuff it spews out is completely inaccurate and laughable.

Regarding your question: "qualité héréditaire", like "hereditary capacity" in English, refers 99% of the time to biology, not law.
Which is why we need to see the actual WORDS FROM YOUR TEXT, with surrounding sentences.
Annette Fehr Dec 26, 2023:
I further disagree that ChatGPT is "native" in English. It's not human. It's a program that uses binary and programmed by humans to display a read-out in English.

Proposed translations

+4
59 mins
Selected

(Statutory) declaration of entitlement to inherit

-> on the 'Statutory Trusts' in England & Wales (E&W) *IF* on intestacy: see de novo the UK Administration of Estates Act 1925.

Affidavit (now known as a Statement of Truth in E&W) if sworn and for the use of those clients who need no literal translation.

Capacity to inherit is odd, unless we are talking about a pet parrot, dog or cat that, as a 'thing' in English law as opposed to France - cut to Karl Lagerfeld's cat called Choupette - cannot inherit and needs a private trust or charity set up to enforce the gift.
Example sentence:

E&W: A statutory declaration is a formal statement made *affirming* that something is true to the best knowledge of the person making the declaration. .. to be signed in the presence of a solicitor, *commissioner for oaths* = Yours Truly or notary public.

E&W: Those *entitled to benefit from the intestate estate* are also the people eligible to act as personal representatives (PRs) and trustees by taking out the grant of probate and administering the estate = *citation / cited to take out probate*

Note from asker:
Thank you very much Adrian
Peer comment(s):

agree AllegroTrans : Good answer, but astonished that you voted for the AI answer; usual claptrap explanation, which I am sure many non-En native spkrs find confusing if not patronising
1 hr
Thanks, Chris. I've changed a tactical-voting agree to neutral, always mindful of a salutary tale from the Strand: a London QC now KC Barrister quote: 'do not interpret (construe) the FRE source text of 'patrimoine'. I want a *LITERAL* translation.'
agree philgoddard : I'm reluctant to vote for this because of the nonsense 'explanation', but at least your answer is correct.
1 hr
Thanks, Phil, for your condescension, though many commenators think a pet animal in England & Wales, as a would-be beneficiary, has 'capacity to inherit'.
agree Annette Fehr
20 hrs
Merci, Annette, toda raba and thanks.
agree Emmanuella
22 hrs
Grazie, Emmanuella, mercia dn thanks.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much"
-8
0 min

affirmation of hereditary quality

In this context, "affirmation de la qualité héréditaire" translates as "affirmation of hereditary quality" because it refers to the acknowledgement of the hereditary rights or status of an individual, as stated in an act of notoriety.

Example sentences:
1. The act of notoriety included an affirmation of hereditary quality, recognizing the individual's rights as an heir.
2. The court requested additional documentation to support the affirmation of hereditary quality in the probate case.
3. In accordance with the law, the act of notoriety confirmed the hereditary quality of the individual, securing their rightful inheritance.
Note from asker:
I totally agree with your disagreements
Well yes ! That was my mistake ! Sorry about the chat GPT "native English" "answer"
This is an AI-generated answer.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Annette Fehr : Given that KudoZ improves our ranking, I don't think we should be made to intentionally compete with AI.
8 mins
disagree writeaway : Something very disturbing about a machine/mechanism/program with 100% confidence for a 100% literal (and incorrect) translation
18 mins
neutral Adrian MM. : This is a perfectly usable, rough & ready rendering for the consumption of some English lawyers and Judges with school French // A London QC now KC Barrister quote from years ago: 'do not interpret (construe) the FRE ST. I want a *LITERAL* translation'.
24 mins
disagree Mpoma : How come this answer was given? Is this an option you can choose when posting a question? Or has ChatGarbagePT actually paid its subs? Either way, ban this irritating over-hyped SP (statistical processing, not "artificial intelligence") nonsense, please.
1 hr
disagree ibz : @Mpoma: see here for a suggestion to remove this stupid feature from Kudoz https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/363811-please...
2 hrs
disagree AllegroTrans : "rough and ready" is not legal and accurate; nul points for "quality", which no self-respecting lawyer would tolerate, not even on the High Street. And "act of notoriety" is utter nonsense.
2 hrs
disagree Daryo : Given that it's a very specialised term used ONLY in one specific context, starting with a misleading "in this context" (like if it's one of many possible) is not helping.
5 hrs
disagree Bourth : It's amazing just how close AI is to the thinking of village idiots who invent some news then embroider more and more around it, pulling in some real facts, to make it appear credible.
12 hrs
disagree liz askew : total nonsense
2 days 8 hrs
Something went wrong...
12 hrs

status of heir

First off, I have always been given to understand that in English legal documents titles such as this have no legal standing, being there just to guide the reader through the document. They simply evoke what is to follow.

In such cases, one must be careful to introduce into the following body text the missing words that might be necessary for the full meaning to slot into place. At this point, therefore, you needn't worry about attestation which may, or may not, come later.

Now, the actual text in question ... I have always seen this as preuve de la qualité d'héritier. I imagine someone has at some time, probably later rather than sooner, seen fit to call this into question, for there are two points that might cause problems.

Héritier ould wonce have been deemed to have covered the female, if I may speak animalistically. Not so today, so instead of qualité d'héritièr.e we have qualité hériditaire, which to my mind at least makes a mockery of French grammar, but be that as it may be.

Secondly, I think it entirely possible that preuve had to be done away with since it suggests something definitive, absolutely certain, unquestionable. Affirmation is less certain, I think.

There is no shortage on the Ouèbbhe of examples of 'status of heir', very many of them being on EU and, strangely, German embassy sites across the world, but I give below a triple of examples in ze muzzer tong.

However, this doctrine does not grant individuals full rights of inheritance and does “not change [an individual’s] status as heir;
https://law-hawaii.libguides.com/c.php?g=939506&p=6771015

Upon the death of an ancestor, one just “becomes” an heir. Hence, for example, without a “slayer’s statute,” a murder victim’s property may pass by will or intestacy to his murderer, so separate is the killer’s status as heir or devisee from the circumstances that caused that expectancy to vest
https://law.lclark.edu/live/files/3455

The Green Paper also considered ways of removing certain administrative and practical obstacles facing individuals wishing to have their status as “heir” recognised across Europe. The idea of establishing a “European Certificate of Inheritance” was mooted.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeu...




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Note added at 12 hrs (2023-12-26 23:22:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, slip of the fingers. Read first above not 'status of heir' but 'status as heir'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2023-12-27 16:28:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

While the ngram below does not show that qualité d'héritierhas been superseded by qualité héréditaire, it does show that usage of the former has declined while use of the latter has remained stable (and hence risen proportionally against the former).
Peer comment(s):

neutral Emmanuella : Il manque 'affirmation' cf. D.Box// http://paris.notaires.fr/fr/actualites/lacte-de-notoriete-la...
11 hrs
Read the first two lines of my answer.
neutral Mpoma : I read this as "assertion/declaration of status as heir". Any proof that this new expression comes about due to the French legislators becoming all "éveillés"? I did a search on ["qualité héréditaire" "qualité d'héritier"]: nothing conclusive.
14 hrs
See ngram added. And no, I've deliberately left out "assertion/declaration of".
neutral AllegroTrans : My misgiving with this is that the person being referred to in what follows this heading is not an heir until he/she inherits; this is simply saying that he/she appears, on evidence, to be entitled to inherit
16 hrs
An heir is a person who stands to inherit. Once the heir inherits s/he ceases to be an heir and their progeny, for example, or anyone in the will become heirs. Notaires are constantly engaging genealogists to identify/track down lost heirs.
Something went wrong...
+1
2 days 16 hrs

declaration of heirship

Given that it is the heading of a paragraph, this seems appropriate.
Peer comment(s):

agree Adrian MM. : good one - I did consider heirship and have included the *Affidavit* species in the glossary as a viable alternative https://www.legalnature.com/categories/estate-planning/affid...
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
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