Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
affirmation de la qualité héréditaire
English translation:
Statutory declaration of entitlement to inherit; (USA, if sworn) Affidavit of Heirship
French term
affirmation de la qualité héréditaire
J'imagine qu'il doit exister un façon formelle de traduire ces mots ?
Je vous remercie beaucoup pour votre aide
4 +4 | (Statutory) declaration of entitlement to inherit | Adrian MM. |
4 +1 | declaration of heirship | Kawthar Busari |
4 | status of heir | Bourth |
5 -8 | affirmation of hereditary quality | | ChatGPT | |
Dec 29, 2023 12:54: Adrian MM. changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2321939">Lucia28's</a> old entry - "affirmation de la qualité héréditaire "" to ""(Statutory) declaration of entitlement to inherit""
Proposed translations
(Statutory) declaration of entitlement to inherit
Affidavit (now known as a Statement of Truth in E&W) if sworn and for the use of those clients who need no literal translation.
Capacity to inherit is odd, unless we are talking about a pet parrot, dog or cat that, as a 'thing' in English law as opposed to France - cut to Karl Lagerfeld's cat called Choupette - cannot inherit and needs a private trust or charity set up to enforce the gift.
E&W: A statutory declaration is a formal statement made *affirming* that something is true to the best knowledge of the person making the declaration. .. to be signed in the presence of a solicitor, *commissioner for oaths* = Yours Truly or notary public.
E&W: Those *entitled to benefit from the intestate estate* are also the people eligible to act as personal representatives (PRs) and trustees by taking out the grant of probate and administering the estate = *citation / cited to take out probate*
http://www.proz.com/personal-glossaries/entry/15052567-qualité-héréditaire-capacity-to-inherit
Thank you very much Adrian |
agree |
AllegroTrans
: Good answer, but astonished that you voted for the AI answer; usual claptrap explanation, which I am sure many non-En native spkrs find confusing if not patronising
1 hr
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Thanks, Chris. I've changed a tactical-voting agree to neutral, always mindful of a salutary tale from the Strand: a London QC now KC Barrister quote: 'do not interpret (construe) the FRE source text of 'patrimoine'. I want a *LITERAL* translation.'
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agree |
philgoddard
: I'm reluctant to vote for this because of the nonsense 'explanation', but at least your answer is correct.
1 hr
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Thanks, Phil, for your condescension, though many commenators think a pet animal in England & Wales, as a would-be beneficiary, has 'capacity to inherit'.
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agree |
Annette Fehr
20 hrs
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Merci, Annette, toda raba and thanks.
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agree |
Emmanuella
22 hrs
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Grazie, Emmanuella, mercia dn thanks.
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affirmation of hereditary quality
Example sentences:
1. The act of notoriety included an affirmation of hereditary quality, recognizing the individual's rights as an heir.
2. The court requested additional documentation to support the affirmation of hereditary quality in the probate case.
3. In accordance with the law, the act of notoriety confirmed the hereditary quality of the individual, securing their rightful inheritance.
I totally agree with your disagreements |
Well yes ! That was my mistake ! Sorry about the chat GPT "native English" "answer" |
disagree |
Annette Fehr
: Given that KudoZ improves our ranking, I don't think we should be made to intentionally compete with AI.
8 mins
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disagree |
writeaway
: Something very disturbing about a machine/mechanism/program with 100% confidence for a 100% literal (and incorrect) translation
18 mins
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neutral |
Adrian MM.
: This is a perfectly usable, rough & ready rendering for the consumption of some English lawyers and Judges with school French // A London QC now KC Barrister quote from years ago: 'do not interpret (construe) the FRE ST. I want a *LITERAL* translation'.
24 mins
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disagree |
Mpoma
: How come this answer was given? Is this an option you can choose when posting a question? Or has ChatGarbagePT actually paid its subs? Either way, ban this irritating over-hyped SP (statistical processing, not "artificial intelligence") nonsense, please.
1 hr
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disagree |
ibz
: @Mpoma: see here for a suggestion to remove this stupid feature from Kudoz https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/363811-please...
2 hrs
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disagree |
AllegroTrans
: "rough and ready" is not legal and accurate; nul points for "quality", which no self-respecting lawyer would tolerate, not even on the High Street. And "act of notoriety" is utter nonsense.
2 hrs
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disagree |
Daryo
: Given that it's a very specialised term used ONLY in one specific context, starting with a misleading "in this context" (like if it's one of many possible) is not helping.
5 hrs
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disagree |
Bourth
: It's amazing just how close AI is to the thinking of village idiots who invent some news then embroider more and more around it, pulling in some real facts, to make it appear credible.
12 hrs
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disagree |
liz askew
: total nonsense
2 days 8 hrs
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status of heir
In such cases, one must be careful to introduce into the following body text the missing words that might be necessary for the full meaning to slot into place. At this point, therefore, you needn't worry about attestation which may, or may not, come later.
Now, the actual text in question ... I have always seen this as preuve de la qualité d'héritier. I imagine someone has at some time, probably later rather than sooner, seen fit to call this into question, for there are two points that might cause problems.
Héritier ould wonce have been deemed to have covered the female, if I may speak animalistically. Not so today, so instead of qualité d'héritièr.e we have qualité hériditaire, which to my mind at least makes a mockery of French grammar, but be that as it may be.
Secondly, I think it entirely possible that preuve had to be done away with since it suggests something definitive, absolutely certain, unquestionable. Affirmation is less certain, I think.
There is no shortage on the Ouèbbhe of examples of 'status of heir', very many of them being on EU and, strangely, German embassy sites across the world, but I give below a triple of examples in ze muzzer tong.
However, this doctrine does not grant individuals full rights of inheritance and does “not change [an individual’s] status as heir;
https://law-hawaii.libguides.com/c.php?g=939506&p=6771015
Upon the death of an ancestor, one just “becomes” an heir. Hence, for example, without a “slayer’s statute,” a murder victim’s property may pass by will or intestacy to his murderer, so separate is the killer’s status as heir or devisee from the circumstances that caused that expectancy to vest
https://law.lclark.edu/live/files/3455
The Green Paper also considered ways of removing certain administrative and practical obstacles facing individuals wishing to have their status as “heir” recognised across Europe. The idea of establishing a “European Certificate of Inheritance” was mooted.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeu...
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Note added at 12 hrs (2023-12-26 23:22:11 GMT)
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Sorry, slip of the fingers. Read first above not 'status of heir' but 'status as heir'.
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2023-12-27 16:28:32 GMT)
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While the ngram below does not show that qualité d'héritierhas been superseded by qualité héréditaire, it does show that usage of the former has declined while use of the latter has remained stable (and hence risen proportionally against the former).
neutral |
Emmanuella
: Il manque 'affirmation' cf. D.Box// http://paris.notaires.fr/fr/actualites/lacte-de-notoriete-la...
11 hrs
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Read the first two lines of my answer.
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neutral |
Mpoma
: I read this as "assertion/declaration of status as heir". Any proof that this new expression comes about due to the French legislators becoming all "éveillés"? I did a search on ["qualité héréditaire" "qualité d'héritier"]: nothing conclusive.
14 hrs
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See ngram added. And no, I've deliberately left out "assertion/declaration of".
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neutral |
AllegroTrans
: My misgiving with this is that the person being referred to in what follows this heading is not an heir until he/she inherits; this is simply saying that he/she appears, on evidence, to be entitled to inherit
16 hrs
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An heir is a person who stands to inherit. Once the heir inherits s/he ceases to be an heir and their progeny, for example, or anyone in the will become heirs. Notaires are constantly engaging genealogists to identify/track down lost heirs.
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declaration of heirship
agree |
Adrian MM.
: good one - I did consider heirship and have included the *Affidavit* species in the glossary as a viable alternative https://www.legalnature.com/categories/estate-planning/affid...
8 hrs
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Discussion
I agree entirely with you about people including multiple references and citations in their responses that would take hours to read each time.
So we end up not looking at their answers at all, which is a shame and defeats the purpose.
Regards
A la 10ème ligne, vous trouvez 'affirmation'. Vous n'êtes pas obligé de lire tout le document...
Par contre, certaines personnes postent parfois des 'tonnes de références' qui font tourner la tête et surtout remplissent l'espace inutilement.
We are often just confronted with a ton of text and no idea why you referenced it.
So are we now to believe that AI has the status of a "person"? And presumably ability to inherit?
What next? Can you marry it?
Toutefois, la ' qualité d'héritier' me semble plus probable.
On parle de 'réserve héréditaire' .
I'm going to go against the flow here but the examples you come up with just show that you don't know how AI works or if you prefer, how to use it.
As for Proz using it, they are clearly doing it wrongly, probably just feeding it the source text and perhaps not even the field etc, which I commented on some time ago.
When prompted correctly, the "village idiot" can produce remarkable results in most languages that would take you lot days or weeks to produce, and with a higher accuracy than I often see on this forum, which is FAR from foolproof. And AI is still in its infancy!!!
You remind me of the chess world in the past who said that computers would NEVER be able to beat chess masters. Top chess engines today THRASH chess masters EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Regarding your question: "qualité héréditaire", like "hereditary capacity" in English, refers 99% of the time to biology, not law.
Which is why we need to see the actual WORDS FROM YOUR TEXT, with surrounding sentences.