Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
bondieuserie
English translation:
tawdry devotional iconography
Added to glossary by
RAZ
Feb 5, 2005 17:23
19 yrs ago
French term
bondieuserie
Non-PRO
French to English
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
In the context of popular religious art /imagery.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +4 | tawdry devotional junk | Christopher Crockett |
3 +6 | religious junk | sarahl (X) |
3 +3 | religious trinket | xuebai |
4 -1 | religious souvenir | Pierre POUSSIN |
Proposed translations
+4
33 mins
Selected
tawdry devotional junk
A bit more context would be of help.
The _Tresor de la langue francaise_ seems to favor the negative connotation of the word, in which case, when applied to objects associated with it, sarahl's "religious junk" would seem to fit.
It would be the lowest class of "devotional items", some of which might also be "religious souvenirs", but not all, by any means.
In the entry in the Tresor the quote under A.2. makes a dispositive distinction among various types of devotional objects :
(http://atilf.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/affart.exe?19;s...
A. Dévotion qui donne trop d'importance aux formes extérieures de la religion, à ses aspects les plus traditionnels et les plus sentimentaux. (Quasi-)synon. bigotisme :
2. Objets liturgiques :
...l'abbé Guitrel se ménageait des occasions fréquentes de visiter les magasins de Rondonneau jeune, fabricant d'objets sacrés : chandeliers, lampes, ciboires, calices, patènes, ostensoirs, monstrances, tabernacles. Le préfet et le prêtre se rencontraient sans déplaisir dans les salles du premier étage, à l'abri des curieux, devant le comptoir chargé de lingots et parmi les vases et les statuettes que M. Worms-Clavelin appelait des bondieuseries.
A. FRANCE, L'Orme du mail, 1897, p. 35.
B. Domaine de l'expr.
1. Représentation figurative d'un sujet religieux, essentiellement caractérisée par sa banalité conformiste, sa mièvrerie excessive :
P. méton. Commerce, magasin d'objets de piété au goût souvent douteux :
6. ... mais ce qui ralentissait la marche de la petite, (...), c'étaient ces nombreuses boutiques, ces innombrables bondieuseries dont la rue est pleine. (...) il y avait des statues coloriées de Vierges, des Madones sérieuses et bonnes à mettre en niche, des Christs, grandeur nature, avec du lilas sur le ventre et du carmin aux doigts, des Jésus bénisseurs, frisottés et blonds, les bras en avant, accueillants et bien vêtus, puis, sur le rayon du bas, des Saints-Sacrements, des patènes, des ciboires, resplendissaient avec leurs dorures et leurs mosaïques; des veilleuses étranges, des cœurs en verre rouge, montés sur du bronze, des lys aux pistils et aux tiges de cuivre, des vases avec des J. M. entrelacés et des bouquets de roses, en papier blanc, s'empilaient sur une cloison, encadrant un petit Rédempteur, de cire rose, qui batifolait sur de la paille, serré comme un joujou de vieille femme, sous un globe de verre. Et tous ces magasins s'échelonnaient, ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 20 hrs 59 mins (2005-02-07 14:22:23 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
A NOTE TO NancyLynn & RAZ:
I\'m at a bit of a disadvantage here because I\'ve never really come across \"bondieuserie\" before --though I have seen its mate \"bigot\" often enough to be amused by the differnce in associative meanings of that word in its respective French and English usages.
It\'s too bad that English hasn\'t taken over the French \"trucs\", which would seem to fit better than \"junk\" as a characterisation of the sort of objects we\'re dealing with --it\'s just \"stuff\", after all.
It seems to me that what we\'re talking about here --in these \"devotional artifacts\" (say, how\'s *that* for a neutral term?)--is a level of \"popular\" religious consciousness, as opposed to the \"higher\" and more \"sophisticated\" level of \"taste\" found in the artifacts commissioned by, say, the \"official\" Hierarchy of the Church.
(Note that this distinction is quite subjective and biased to the point of snobbery.)
A case in point is Michelangelo\'s frescos for the Sistine Chapel --obviously not \"tawdry devotional junk\".
Or, are they?
http://www.lifeisajoke.com/Simpsons/bartart.JPG
Btw, even though it sounds \"educated\", \"iconography\" is definitely *NOT* the word you want to use, RAZ, since that word refers, not to the particular *object* itself but to the **subject** matter of it.
Thus, those artifacts which are shown on the site which Bourth found
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/38859/
are not \"iconography\", they are tawdry devotional junk which may (or may not) have an iconography --a specific subject matter, like \"The Crucifixion\"
http://p.vtourist.com/962685-Travel_Picture-Shining_in_the_D...
or \"The Virgin Mary\"
http://p.vtourist.com/962686-Travel_Picture-Shining_with_Ref...
What makes these two objects \"tawdry\" or \"tacky\" is not their iconography (which is quite traditional and orthodox), but rather the material from which they are made (plastic, associated with cheapness) and the garish visual \"enhancement\" which has been added (they \"Glow in the Dark!\", and are thus \"tawdry\").
\"tawdry (or \"tacky\") devotional objects\" might be a solution, \"tawdry\" carrying the necessary negative connotation, \"devotional\" descrbing the type of artifact.
The _Tresor de la langue francaise_ seems to favor the negative connotation of the word, in which case, when applied to objects associated with it, sarahl's "religious junk" would seem to fit.
It would be the lowest class of "devotional items", some of which might also be "religious souvenirs", but not all, by any means.
In the entry in the Tresor the quote under A.2. makes a dispositive distinction among various types of devotional objects :
(http://atilf.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/affart.exe?19;s...
A. Dévotion qui donne trop d'importance aux formes extérieures de la religion, à ses aspects les plus traditionnels et les plus sentimentaux. (Quasi-)synon. bigotisme :
2. Objets liturgiques :
...l'abbé Guitrel se ménageait des occasions fréquentes de visiter les magasins de Rondonneau jeune, fabricant d'objets sacrés : chandeliers, lampes, ciboires, calices, patènes, ostensoirs, monstrances, tabernacles. Le préfet et le prêtre se rencontraient sans déplaisir dans les salles du premier étage, à l'abri des curieux, devant le comptoir chargé de lingots et parmi les vases et les statuettes que M. Worms-Clavelin appelait des bondieuseries.
A. FRANCE, L'Orme du mail, 1897, p. 35.
B. Domaine de l'expr.
1. Représentation figurative d'un sujet religieux, essentiellement caractérisée par sa banalité conformiste, sa mièvrerie excessive :
P. méton. Commerce, magasin d'objets de piété au goût souvent douteux :
6. ... mais ce qui ralentissait la marche de la petite, (...), c'étaient ces nombreuses boutiques, ces innombrables bondieuseries dont la rue est pleine. (...) il y avait des statues coloriées de Vierges, des Madones sérieuses et bonnes à mettre en niche, des Christs, grandeur nature, avec du lilas sur le ventre et du carmin aux doigts, des Jésus bénisseurs, frisottés et blonds, les bras en avant, accueillants et bien vêtus, puis, sur le rayon du bas, des Saints-Sacrements, des patènes, des ciboires, resplendissaient avec leurs dorures et leurs mosaïques; des veilleuses étranges, des cœurs en verre rouge, montés sur du bronze, des lys aux pistils et aux tiges de cuivre, des vases avec des J. M. entrelacés et des bouquets de roses, en papier blanc, s'empilaient sur une cloison, encadrant un petit Rédempteur, de cire rose, qui batifolait sur de la paille, serré comme un joujou de vieille femme, sous un globe de verre. Et tous ces magasins s'échelonnaient, ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 20 hrs 59 mins (2005-02-07 14:22:23 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
A NOTE TO NancyLynn & RAZ:
I\'m at a bit of a disadvantage here because I\'ve never really come across \"bondieuserie\" before --though I have seen its mate \"bigot\" often enough to be amused by the differnce in associative meanings of that word in its respective French and English usages.
It\'s too bad that English hasn\'t taken over the French \"trucs\", which would seem to fit better than \"junk\" as a characterisation of the sort of objects we\'re dealing with --it\'s just \"stuff\", after all.
It seems to me that what we\'re talking about here --in these \"devotional artifacts\" (say, how\'s *that* for a neutral term?)--is a level of \"popular\" religious consciousness, as opposed to the \"higher\" and more \"sophisticated\" level of \"taste\" found in the artifacts commissioned by, say, the \"official\" Hierarchy of the Church.
(Note that this distinction is quite subjective and biased to the point of snobbery.)
A case in point is Michelangelo\'s frescos for the Sistine Chapel --obviously not \"tawdry devotional junk\".
Or, are they?
http://www.lifeisajoke.com/Simpsons/bartart.JPG
Btw, even though it sounds \"educated\", \"iconography\" is definitely *NOT* the word you want to use, RAZ, since that word refers, not to the particular *object* itself but to the **subject** matter of it.
Thus, those artifacts which are shown on the site which Bourth found
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/38859/
are not \"iconography\", they are tawdry devotional junk which may (or may not) have an iconography --a specific subject matter, like \"The Crucifixion\"
http://p.vtourist.com/962685-Travel_Picture-Shining_in_the_D...
or \"The Virgin Mary\"
http://p.vtourist.com/962686-Travel_Picture-Shining_with_Ref...
What makes these two objects \"tawdry\" or \"tacky\" is not their iconography (which is quite traditional and orthodox), but rather the material from which they are made (plastic, associated with cheapness) and the garish visual \"enhancement\" which has been added (they \"Glow in the Dark!\", and are thus \"tawdry\").
\"tawdry (or \"tacky\") devotional objects\" might be a solution, \"tawdry\" carrying the necessary negative connotation, \"devotional\" descrbing the type of artifact.
Reference:
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Was looking for a term that is more specific to imagery than "junk". I really liked "tawdry" and "devotional", though, and used it in combination with "iconography"."
-1
5 mins
religious souvenir
Declined
Ultra Lingua.
or if its is a particular behaviour , you may use "smug devotion"
or if its is a particular behaviour , you may use "smug devotion"
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Christopher Crockett
: Perhaps insufficiently vague, given the strong negative connotations of the word.
28 mins
|
disagree |
JH Trads
: the meaning is more negative in French
7 hrs
|
Comment: "Was looking more for imagery than items (e.g. souvenirs) and I also agree with others that "bondieuserie" has a more pejorative conotation."
+6
14 mins
religious junk
Declined
bondieuserie is really negative.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Christopher Crockett
: That seems to be its present-day connotation.
7 mins
|
thanks Christopher!
|
|
agree |
Bourth (X)
: Holy junk, or even holy horrors - look at http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/38859/
12 mins
|
holy ...., yes.
|
|
agree |
Juan Jacob
: I like that one.
15 mins
|
merci JJ !
|
|
agree |
Dr Sue Levy (X)
: politely put ;-)
17 mins
|
thanks Sue!
|
|
agree |
Pierre POUSSIN
25 mins
|
trugarez mon fréére !
|
|
agree |
DocteurPC
: yes, depending how insulting you want it to be
41 mins
|
just as much as the source, no more, no less.
|
Comment: "Was looking for a term that is more specific to imagery than "junk"."
+3
43 mins
religious trinket
Declined
WEBSTER : 2. anything of trivial value
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Christopher Crockett
: Depends upon the context of the original. "Trinket" is less derogatory than "junk", by a bit.
26 mins
|
agree |
JCEC
3 hrs
|
agree |
NancyLynn
1 day 18 hrs
|
Comment: "I also like trinket better than "junk", but believe that the pejorative bit is more related to the religious aspect than the object (thus my preference for "tawdry devotional iconography")."
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