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Aug 19, 2019 09:33
4 yrs ago
4 viewers *
English term

Pride-ish life

Non-PRO English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
I'm translating a short video clip from Persian into English, which is going to be uploaded to some social media platforms for the English-speaking audience. It's a 1-minute movie in which the head of a gang is giving his fellow thugs a pep talk.
At one point, he has a line which, roughly, literally translate to:

"You deserve better than a Pride-ish life. Benz and BMW isn't your dream, it's a (your) necessity."

Pride is a really crappy and yet widely owned car in Iran. Its poor build quality makes it a very unsafe car. It holds the top record in traffic accident fatalities.
It is a relatively cheap car generally owned by the low-middle class. You don't buy it because you like it. You buy it because you can't afford a better option.
This car is sort of seen by the Iranians as the symbol of a crappy life they are being submitted to. It's actually common to hear people denying Pride as a car: "it's a Pride, not a car".

With that background, I'm looking for a suitable equivalent that would have a similar connotation for the English-peaking audience. It doesn't have to be a car brand or model, however it's preferred if there is indeed such an infamous candidate that the target English audience can relate to, since the dialogue goes on to compare Benz and BMW as symbols of a better life.

Thanks everyone in advance for your time and help.
Responses
4 +4 [see my suggestion]
3 +6 Reliant 'Robin'
4 +3 an old banger
3 -1 A crap car as the "Pride" car is not for you
4 -3 Gorgeous
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (2): Björn Vrooman, Mikhail Korolev

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Discussion

Björn Vrooman Aug 25, 2019:
Just for fun... ...and to save the reputation of lawnmowers everywhere:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/watch-hondas-190...
Björn Vrooman Aug 22, 2019:
Whether or not you can or want to use Lamborghini depends on the degree of "domestication."

I've read that while there are some Mercedes-Benz cars driving in Iran (though they are mucb more expensive that in western Europe), there aren't any Lamborghini cars at all. In fact, an engineering team recently built a replica of one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uN1nK50-xA

That's what I meant by reaching for the stars: Getting a Mercedes is improbable but not impossible. Getting a Lamborghini basically is.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement by B D Finch: "...primary meaning is about social status..."

If you think a Lamborghini car gets the message across better than a Mercedes could, go for it. If you think that's a bridge too far, don't.

It's part of the reason why suggestions like Reliant Robin don't work well, IMO. Say you'd be translating this into German, not English. I'd never think of using Trabant in this case--it's highly unlikely some street thug in Iran has seen one before.

Gotta go...Best of luck!
Björn Vrooman Aug 22, 2019:
Hello Hamid Ok, I'll try to make it brief.

As for "really that unknown to a US audience," the primary meaning of banger in the States has little do with cars but sex, drugs and crime. Here's a pretty good summary:
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/bange...

I don't want to say it's not going to be understood at all; I guess there's a 50/50 chance people will.

Don't know why piece/heap of junk hasn't gotten much traction...too generic?
Example sentence in M-W:
"His last car was a piece of junk."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/a piece of junk

There's also a memorable Star Wars quote where the expression is used. Whether the car is old or new doesn't matter:
https://www.americanfinancialsolutions.org/blog/my-new-car-i...

I actually kind of liked Phil's "moving coffin." I really don't know whether that works in the UK, but an ugly, unsafe car could also be described as a "tin can death trap."

[...]
Hamid Parham (asker) Aug 22, 2019:
@Björn It's set in present, 2019.
I think I'm gonna go with philgoddard's answer. It fits in with the rest of the dialogue. Also, the client is asking for a final version, so I'm running out of time.
Björn Vrooman Aug 21, 2019:
@B D Finch One word that still trips me up is "mad." I'm never sure whether someone just called someone else crazy or thinks he or she is just angry.

What I've noticed over the past decade or two (though maybe that's just my experience) is that more and more UK/IE actors are getting roles in American TV shows and movies. Sometimes, this means you understand most of the movie but not all of it =)

I guess this just illustrates (similar to what you said) how hard it will be to find something that is going to be understood in all corners of the globe.

Best wishes
B D Finch Aug 21, 2019:
@Björn I stand corrected. It's yet another example of a difference between UK and US English. I am constantly finding that things I thought were written by a non-native speaker are correct in US English. The latest example is "Please wait momentarily". Every time that appeared on my computer screen I used to mutter "Why didn't they employ a proper translator or proofreader," but now I know it's US English I still find it irritating.
Björn Vrooman Aug 21, 2019:
Use of Benz As for "...the abbreviated form is Mercedes, not Benz." and "...the shortened form of Mercedes Benz is 'Mercedes,' never 'Benz'," that may be true in the UK.

In the States, especially among the African American community, Benz is not uncommon. Here's a list of rap songs (item no. 5):
https://hyphyhiphop.wordpress.com/2013/02/27/carbrandsinrap

US Vlog:
"If Nicki Gaga Modded A Benz...it Would Look Like This"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW7oATTkZTk

US show "Big guys in a Benz":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K4zDm16aK0

If you now think no one except for a few rappers/YouTubers use it, this review on the website of a Santa Monica-based company is going to make your head spin: https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/2018/convertib...

In news reports, the name is usually spelled out, but: "...once he was released, the victim told police his Benz could be..."
https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/154745-mercedes-benz...

There's also a Canadian movie called "The Benz."

As an aside, the American half of this household strongly disapproves of the use of "Merc."

Best
Björn Vrooman Aug 21, 2019:
Question Hamid, many thanks for your response. It'll take me a while to post a reply, but what I'd need to know first is what year this movie is set in.
Hamid Parham (asker) Aug 20, 2019:
@Tony M You're on to the point about "'some means of motorized transport that is beneath the dignity of". However, the "a real thug'" part is, although true on the surface, not exactly what the director explained to me. The director's use of thugs [perhaps "thug" or "gang" was a bit of a strong choice of words on my part] or outlaws to deliver the speech is a means of challenging the established order. The message he is trying to communicate is indeed directed to the youth generation who is repressed and perhaps even depressed. The dignity in question belongs to them. Nonetheless, I agree with you that we should settle for a generic equivalent that fits the purpose.
Hamid Parham (asker) Aug 20, 2019:
@philgoddard Mercedes is commonly referred to as "Benz" in Iran, and I intentionally retained it in the literal translation to help illustrate the context better. But I see your point.
The car prices have inflated in recent years. The cheapest Pride costs something above $4000 nowadays. Your average Iranian worker makes something around $200 per month.
Hamid Parham (asker) Aug 20, 2019:
@Björn Vrooman ... this is the decision I’ll have to make. They want a domesticated [“globalized” is probably the more accurate term] translation, even if I’ll have to make changes throughout the entire dialogue to achieve that.
Hamid Parham (asker) Aug 20, 2019:
@Björn Vrooman Thank you for providing the references. I was hoping a car related equivalent could be found, however, after reading the answers and the comments, it seems like that might not be an option. So, you're right about using adjectives or a more generic expression or equivalent. You're also on to the point about the audience. The client hasn’t specified any country or locale because they won’t be targeting any. They want to disseminate the dubbed movie online “for the English-speaking audience” [Their quote].
You brought up a really interesting point about the difference between reaching for the stars and wanting a better life. The message the movie is trying to get through to the Iranian audience is indeed about changing things for a better life. However, the same way the medium it uses to convey that message [crappy Pride] is too source-specific that finding a similar car-related equivalent is challenging and hence we’ll have to settle for a more generic one, the concepts would(?) inevitably become more implicit and generic – wanting a better life becomes reaching for the stars. Something might be getting lost in translation here, but given the overall skopos stated by the client, ...
philgoddard Aug 19, 2019:
Apparently The Pride costs $1,500, and is commonly known as the Moving Coffin.
Björn Vrooman Aug 19, 2019:
Continued II As for the comment about "old," here's Saipa (the Iranian automaker in question):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIPA

If you click on the Pride, you'll get to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Festiva

If you look at this page, you'll see that the "Ford Festiva is a subcompact car that was marketed by Ford between 1986 and 2002."

And here's the KIA Pride: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Festiva#Kia_Pride

In any case, the car platform is at least a decade if not two decades old. Putting lipstick on a pig, you could say; even if the car just rolled out of the factory, it's outdated.

Moreover, upgrading from Mercedes to Lamborghini could have far-reaching implications for the movie, even if it isn't that obvious; there is a difference between reaching for the stars and wanting a better life (thug or no thug).

However, only the asker can answer this one.

Best
Björn Vrooman Aug 19, 2019:
Continued As an aside, your statement about Wartburg is wildly inaccurate. That was the car that the "ruling class" could get and even the West German press praised it. Sure you didn't want to say Trabant?

Third, even if used figuratively, a phrase like this (and Phil's is not a standard expression) doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is part of everyone's socialization, if you will. That a gang of thugs would even think about lawnmowers or taking a Reliant Robin out for a spin is a bit far-fetched, IMO; I thought context mattered.

Add to that the fact that this movie is about Iran, not the UK, not the US, and I think you need to be careful about how many language "transplants" you want to get in there.

On top of this, when you subtitle and dub movies you often need to follow certain rules, one of them being that you can make some adjustments but you should stay somewhat close to the original.

Completely rewriting the script wouldn't be helpful to me (as said, you need to think about what comes after this scene) and I don't think it is to the asker.

[...]
Björn Vrooman Aug 19, 2019:
Tony I don't know what's with all those underhanded insults lately; I'm not the only one who disagreed with your answer.

In fact, I really appreciate most of your explanations. This doesn't mean I can't disagree.

First off, I wasn't the one talking about Mercedes and Benz; that was Phil.

There's nothing "slavishly literal" about "a piece of junk" (an oft-heard phrase on American TV). I didn't suggest a brand, for good reason, IMO.

A couple of points:

In your response to Tina, you said: "Yet the source text did use a brand name to conjure up the same notion..."

It did because the movie was produced in Iran and it's about Iran. You cannot compare the (limited) geographical distribution of Farsi to that of English.

Second, the kind of car he described doesn't really exist in the "Western world" anymore. Going back to one that almost no one drives nowadays in most parts of the world (Lada) can't be the answer.

The same is true for a car that isn't well-known outside the UK (Reliant Robin). They tried getting it onto the US market...they gave up after manufacturing five(!) cars.

[...]
philgoddard Aug 19, 2019:
Thanks for your explanation of my answer, Tony I thought I didn't need to provide one, but it seems I was wrong :-)
Tony M Aug 19, 2019:
@ Bjorn I think we have to accept that in the source language, perhaps Mercedes are referred to as 'Benz' — all that matters is that it is right in the target language!

And I think you also have to get away from being quite so slavishly literal — I think it is clear that the speaker is referring to 'some means of motorized transport that is beneath the dignity of a real thug' — and the Reliant and the lawnmower both fit that bill admirably, in a figurative sense.
Björn Vrooman Aug 19, 2019:
@Phil The asker also said: "...since the dialogue goes on to compare Benz and BMW as symbols of a better life..."

Do you expect him to rewrite the entire dialog, so he can compare a Diablo with a Gallardo?

I also don't know, and that's the same issue I have with a tricycle-like car, how the head of a gang of street thugs (presumably) could possibly be talking about lawnmowers =)

Best
philgoddard Aug 19, 2019:
If you do want to use Mercedes-Benz, the abbreviated form is Mercedes, not Benz.
Björn Vrooman Aug 19, 2019:
@Hamid I thought the Tata Indica/MG City Rover could make the list:
"When Rover introduced the CityRover in 2003, the company famously refused to lend one for Top Gear to test. That says all you need to know about the car, which was overpriced, under-equipped, poorly built and dull as dishwater. After two years the CityRover – and Rover itself – were no more."
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/10-of-the-worst-british-car...

Cf.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/features/great-mot...

The trouble is that very few carmakers are still British-owned; e.g.:
https://www.borro.com/uk/insights/blog/british-car-brands-ow...

Considering the parameters of your question (that is, gang/thugs, crappy small car, unsafe to drive but affordable and widely owned), I'm not sure whether you wouldn't be better off using adjectives (just as you did, including rusty).

Also, I think by "English-speaking," I assume you mean a global audience. Currently, Fiat has the worst brand reputation in the US: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/03/13/your-car-cons...

Best wishes

Responses

+4
6 hrs
Selected

[see my suggestion]

I don't think there's one brand that's universally associated with poor quality. So I suggest:

You deserve better. Your life should be a Lamborghini, not a lawnmower.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2019-08-23 15:52:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In answer to your additional question, I don't recommend replacing "lawnmower" with "old banger" unless your text is for the British market. Your job is to keep the translation flowing, so that the viewer doesn't notice it. If you suddenly introduce an incongruity, you lose their attention.
Note from asker:
Hmmm... Thank you so much for your answer. I agree with James. Your suggestion definitely got my interest. What if we replace "lawnmower" with "an old banger"? Will it still work for the broad audience?
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Cheers, Phil! Our sole aim is to help the Asker (y)
2 mins
Thanks! That's very gracious when I've disagreed with your answer :-)
agree AllegroTrans : this also works, well done
1 hr
agree James A. Walsh : Best generic option here, in my opinion.
1 hr
agree GILLES MEUNIER
11 hrs
agree B D Finch : That's good. I like the alliteration.
16 hrs
disagree Daryo : there is no need for "Lamborgini" - nothing wrong with just "Mercedes" - far better known and happens to be in the original version.
1 day 6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I'll go with your answer. Thank you and everyone who participated."
-3
5 mins

Gorgeous

I understand the writer’s sentiment. As an immigrant who turned over a new leaf by coming to live in prosperous America, there’s a justifiable need to show off and show the before (poor life) and after (rich life) effects of his life-changing decision.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your answer. I'm afraid I have to agree with our colleagues. Ironically, there is no pride in owning a Pride at all!
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Totally wrong! You don't seem to have understood Asker's explanation, which shows us this is anything BUT "gorgeous"!
19 mins
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : you didn't read the context
1 hr
disagree AllegroTrans : clearly wrong
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
9 hrs
English term (edited): You deserve better than a Pride-ish life.

A crap car as the "Pride" car is not for you

A crap car as the "Pride" car is not for you, / is not what you have to make do with

This is happening in Iran, so I would be tempted not to "localise" the make of this car, but to leave the name (with all the underlying irony in this crap car being called "the pride") and add a kind of short "explanation" within the limits imposed by sub-titling.

You could also look at it this way: if you lose all "local references" is it a clip about Iran any longer?


Note from asker:
@Daryo Thank you for your answer. I understand your point about the loss of local color due to localization (domestication). I did actually brought up this point with the client in our first meeting and told them about the alternative foreignized translation method to preserve the local feeling of the movie, but they chose to go with a localized approach. Also, I forgot to mention in the context of my question that it is for a dubbing project, not subtitling. Sorry for that. I know it's an important detail.
Peer comment(s):
disagree philgoddard : (a) This is bad English, and (b) you can't add explanations to subtitles. // No, because 'a crap car as the "Pride" car' is not something a native English speaker would say. You could say something like 'a car as crappy as the Pride'.
1 hr
"This is bad English" - because it goes against your obsession with "making it short"?
neutral AllegroTrans : Bad English
2 days 2 hrs
Something went wrong...
+6
22 mins
English term (edited): Pride

Reliant 'Robin'

Is probably the UK equivalent much-disparaged 'pretend' car

https://partsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/reliant...

I think it conveys exactly the sort of image you describe.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2019-08-19 09:57:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Though I wouldn't use it with '-ish' — I think you need to reformulate to avoid needing that, which doesn't really work well in this sense.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2019-08-19 11:52:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The 'Wartburg' was a similarly mocked car in Germany, but would not say anything to most English readers.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2019-08-19 19:25:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oh yes, indeed, the East German 'Trabant' was simialrly much-maligned!
Note from asker:
Thank you so much for your answer. I did some reading on Reliant Robin and although it sounds like a really good candidate with considerable similarities, there are a few things that don't add up. First, as Yvonne Gallagher and B D Finch pointed out and "Jeremy" confirms at the end of the Top Gear episode linked by "writeaway" in his comment, it might be a somewhat obscure reference for today's generation. You rightfully pointed that I didn't specify the exact locale of the target audience. This is because the client doesn't really have a specific English speaking locale in mind. I did point this out to them when I got the job trying to get a specific country or at least region out of them, however they answer is that they're not targeting a specific country. They're simply going to upload the dubbed movie to some of their social media platforms such as instagram and also distribute and promote it online. I know this is a rather broad audience, which makes finding an equivalent that works for and have the same effect on all of them is really challenging, if not impossible. However, it does tell us one thing: the audience is probably fairly young. Consequently, as pointed out by Tina Vonhof, one would be convinced to go for a generic equivalent rather than a car name or brand. I did note this in my question. However, since there are other car brands used to construct the original dialogue, I thought it would be perfect if there is an equivalent that would produce the same effect. This Robin has lots of similarities with our Pride. They're both cheap and plasticy, both unsafe, both can "fly" apparantly. But it seems like Robin would probably fail to produce the same effect on its target audience. There was another pointed I noticed while I was reading about Robin. "Reliant three-wheelers enjoy a special place in British culture, often as the butt of jokes..." says its Wikipedia page. That is not the case with Pride. It's actually quite the opposite: it's tragic! In fact, the gang head character in the movie is shouting in anger when performing this dialogue. He (the typical Iranian youth) is being submitted to a life which only has crappy things like Pride to offer, while leaving him no pride. The original audience don't laugh when they hear a "Pride-ish life". Rather they are reminded of the low bar which has been set for their dreams. Now I know this might not be how the things are for the peer target audience, and so there might not be a similar sort of repression that the translation could appeal to, not in the form of a car brand at least, but at this point I think I would settle for the next best thing.
Peer comment(s):
agree kmtext : Or possibly a Lada. They were much-maligned too.
5 mins
Thanks, KMT!
agree Guillermo Masio : I'd go for Dacia. It has a worse reputation.https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/features/best-wors...
29 mins
Thanks, Guillermo! Oh, not really, and little known in e.g. GB.
agree writeaway : Or unReliant Robin. There is nothing wrong with today's Dacias. Au contraire. Lada works and may be a more familiar name than the Reliant Robin /YES!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8
41 mins
Thanks, W/A! I can't help thinking of Delboy and Rodney...
agree Yvonne Gallagher : I'd go with Lada. Here are some jokes. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/once-butt-every-car-jo... Do people these days know a Robin?
1 hr
Thanks, Yvonne! Oh dear, am I THAT old?!
neutral B D Finch : Yes, you are THAT old. Very few people under 55 will have heard of Reliant Robins, unless their grandad had one.
3 hrs
Gee thanks, B! :'(
agree AllegroTrans
3 hrs
Thanks, C!
neutral Tina Vonhof (X) : i would want something more generic, not a brand name.
4 hrs
Yet the source text did use a brand name to conjure up the same notion...
neutral philgoddard : This won't be understood outside the UK.
6 hrs
Of course! But then the same might be said of any specific make of car used; Asker failed to state where his target audience are?
agree Daryo : that's the idea, although according to some petrolheads the choice for that kind of model is not limited to the "Robin" // the East-German "Trabant" will do for most of Eastern Europe.
8 hrs
Thanks, Daryo!
Something went wrong...
+3
3 hrs

an old banger

I don't know that there is any current make of car that would fit the bill, so I suggest using the generic term "old banger". No "-ish life", which is very un-English-sounding in this context. BMW seems to be less desirable than it used to be, judging from the following:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uks-most-least-reliabl...
"UK's most and least reliable cars revealed - and it's bad news for BMW
Peugeot, Skoda and Hyundai reigned supreme in a study of reliability in the auto-industryW

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 3 hrs (2019-08-21 13:30:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The idea of having to drive an old banger certainly does produce the effect you want, but it is a specifically British expression (possibly also used in India). Rust bucket would do for both the UK and US, though (unlike "old banger") it doesn't suggest the car was rubbish even when new. I like philgoddard's idea of upgrading to Lamborghini for contrast, because they are exclusively associated with luxury sports cars.

Note that the shortened form of Mercedes Benz is "Mercedes", never "Benz" and a more casual version (more likely to be used by gang members) is "Merc". On the other hand, in some parts of the world (e.g. some Anglophone African countries) Mercedes are strongly associated with taxis because almost all the taxis are (or used to be) Mercedes cars.

May I suggest that you get your finished translation professionally proofread by a native speaker of English.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 22 hrs (2019-08-22 08:33:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Following AllegroTrans' comment that ""old banger" is a FRIGHTFULLY British term that might not work in the rest of the EN-spkg world", I thought that I'd check whether the term is used in India and these are a few of the ghits I came up with:

https://www.alamy.com › stock-photo › old-banger-car
Find the perfect old banger car stock photo. Huge collection, amazing choice, ... Old Ambassador car Mumbai Maharashtra India Asia. Image ID: ERYMGW (RM).

https://www.throttleadda.com › cars › top-5-old-banger-cars
Oct 3, 2015 - Top 5 old Banger Cars that really rocked the Indian markets.

https://indiatimespost.com › U.K
Jun 4, 2019 - The India Times Post · News ... MOTORISTS in the market for a new car could save at least £4,000 just by scrapping their old banger.

www.india.jeroendorrestein.com › india › Jeroens_new_hobby
Meaning, either you buy and restore an old banger, or you have something really ...

One thing that I did notice is that Indian refs seem to show quite a bit of affection for old bangers.

Note that "FRIGHTFULLY British" would mean that it was upper-class British, which is certainly not the case. To make it clear that this is not just a term of affection for an old car, the term can be prefaced with "clapped out".
Note from asker:
Thank you so much for your answer and notes. The translation I have provided here is a rough literal one, which I thought would help better explain the context of the question. Of course "-ish" would sound odd. "Benz" and BMW are also literally translated. You see, those are actually popular in Iranian public eyes as flashy and dream cars. But of course you are on to the point about it, and I am considering replacing those as well, which wouldn't be much of a challenge, for prosperity could be an experience the depiction of which is more globally shared, while despair materializes in more isolated forms. However, you are right about the primary intention and message of the source. Although it has a deeper more of an ideologic message concealed in there. The equivalent, apart from having a similar characteristic, should invoke a similar effect. Does "old banger" invoke a similar effect, aside from implying similar connotations? Does it make the audience think about the condition they live in and what's not so great about it, does it provoke them a bit in preparation of the encouragement that is to follow? Overall though, I’ll have to do some further reading on your suggestion.
I was actually thinking about mixing phil's answer with yours. "Your life should be a Lamborgini, not 'an old banger'" Something along those lines maybe. Now I know you noted that “old banger” is specific to UK, but it just sounds better to me in the above sentence, compared to “a rust bucket”. Is “old banger” really that unknown to a US audience? Also, you mentioned that rust bucket "doesn't suggest the car was rubbish even when new". It doesn't matter as long as the translation gets the message across.
Following my suggestion for mixing phil's answer with yours, I think when we put "old banger" next to "a lamborghini" in the translation, it is pretty "clear that this is not just a term of affection for an old car". As for your suggestion to proofread the translation by a native English speaker, I'm afraid that's beyond the budget limit of the project.
Peer comment(s):
agree Björn Vrooman : In the US, that'd be a piece of junk or a(n old) rust bucket. Maybe replace BMW with Porsche--if possible.
42 mins
Thanks Björn
neutral Tony M : The trouble here is that it doesn't necessarily need to be an old banger — it is a car that is undesirable even if brand spanking new.
48 mins
Yes, but the primary meaning is about social status and if there is no equivalent brand of car to express that in English, then one has to find a different way of expressing the primary meaning.
agree Tina Vonhof (X) : A cheap piece of junk.
1 hr
Thanks Tina
agree Agneta Pallinder : Agree with using a generic expression - every "English speaking audience" has its own favourite candidate for "crap car".
1 hr
Thanks Agneta
neutral philgoddard : I think this is too British. I assume Hamid wants something that will be understood throughout the English-speaking world.
2 hrs
Unfortunately, that might be impossible, given the very localised way these things are expressed.
neutral AllegroTrans : Agree with TM's comment AND "old banger" is a FRIGHTFULLY British term that might not work in the rest of the EN-spkg world
4 hrs
As I noted to TM, the primary meaning is about social status and if there is no equivalent brand of car to express that in English, then one has to find a different way of expressing the primary meaning.//See my note posted above re India.
disagree Daryo : no, even brand new this "Pride" car was crap.
5 hrs
See my comment to Tony above.
neutral James A. Walsh : I considered posting 'old banger', but didn't in fear of all of the above!
8 hrs
Don't let them scare you off!
agree Yvonne Gallagher : I quite like Tina's "cheap piece of junk"
2 days 2 hrs
Thanks Yvonne. I can't imagine anyone using the phrase "cheap piece of junk".
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