Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
chasseurs
English translation:
light cavalry
Added to glossary by
Stephanie Mitchel
Aug 21, 2004 14:28
19 yrs ago
French term
United States
tirailleur
French to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
fantasy/adventure
Context: Original draft of Jules Verne novel, Hector Servadac.
Passage: "..quelques militaires, venus là en curieux, s'y laissaient voir, et parmi eux, le commandant du 2e tirailleurs et le major du 8e chasseurs."
Problem: I'm getting definitions for both 'tirailleur' and 'chasseur' as 'infantryman' and I know there must be a distinction.
Passage: "..quelques militaires, venus là en curieux, s'y laissaient voir, et parmi eux, le commandant du 2e tirailleurs et le major du 8e chasseurs."
Problem: I'm getting definitions for both 'tirailleur' and 'chasseur' as 'infantryman' and I know there must be a distinction.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | Light Infantry Soldier |
Pierre POUSSIN
|
| 5 +2 | do not translate |
Hervé du Verle
|
| 5 +1 | riflemen batalion/brigad |
Michel A.
|
| 4 +2 | fusileer (US), fusilier (UK) |
Philip Taylor
|
| 3 | possibilities |
RHELLER
|
| 1 | comment |
Bourth (X)
|
Proposed translations
+1
6 mins
Pierre POUSSIN
France
France
Native in French
France
Fast and accurate.
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France) 
Works in: English to French, French to English, Latin to French, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
20
Selected
Light Infantry Soldier
En tant qu'opposé à l'Infanterie (de ligne, ou portée, ou mécanisée), mais "a skirmisher" dans une action de guerre.
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Note added at 10 mins (2004-08-21 14:38:31 GMT)
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A rifleman, c\'est juste un fantassin lambda. Le tirailleur est plus \"léger\" d\'où Light Infantry qui désignait aussi les Chasseurs!
Ne pas traduire \"Tirailleurs\" serait bien, avec juste une explication!
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Note added at 48 mins (2004-08-21 15:16:53 GMT)
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Now, it would be 2nd Mech. Infantry Batt. but not in a Jules Verne book!
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Note added at 10 mins (2004-08-21 14:38:31 GMT)
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A rifleman, c\'est juste un fantassin lambda. Le tirailleur est plus \"léger\" d\'où Light Infantry qui désignait aussi les Chasseurs!
Ne pas traduire \"Tirailleurs\" serait bien, avec juste une explication!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2004-08-21 15:16:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Now, it would be 2nd Mech. Infantry Batt. but not in a Jules Verne book!
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Michel A.
: ici on parle de l'unité (sous entendue)
3 mins
|
|
Votre "disagree" est un peu prétentieux, mais bon!
|
|
| agree |
Tom Bishop
: 2nd Light Infantry !!
39 mins
|
|
Thanks!
|
|
| agree |
Tony M
: And particularly with Tom's comment; all that is needed is to give a flavour, and fusiliers / light infantry would be fine IMO
1 hr
|
|
Thanks! Agreed!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks, irat56, "
+1
5 mins
riflemen batalion/brigad
here 'tirailleurs' refers in French to the unit (not to the men) eventhough the word is missing,
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Note added at 8 mins (2004-08-21 14:37:21 GMT)
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As for the difference between chasseurs & tirailleurs it\'s all about the country of origin:
Uniformology CD2004- 17 £6.50
The French Colonial Army (Army of Africa) 1834 to 1914 includes the Spahis, Foreign Legion, Chasseur\'s D\'Afrique and the Algerian Tirailleurs (36 plates) plus the Army of Africa by Detaille
full details (in French) on
http://aigleconquerant.free.fr/armee/chasseurs.htm
HTH
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2004-08-21 14:37:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As for the difference between chasseurs & tirailleurs it\'s all about the country of origin:
Uniformology CD2004- 17 £6.50
The French Colonial Army (Army of Africa) 1834 to 1914 includes the Spahis, Foreign Legion, Chasseur\'s D\'Afrique and the Algerian Tirailleurs (36 plates) plus the Army of Africa by Detaille
full details (in French) on
http://aigleconquerant.free.fr/armee/chasseurs.htm
HTH
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Pierre POUSSIN
: Battalion or Regiment (not Brigade)
3 mins
|
| neutral |
Alfa Trans (X)
: with irat56, not a brigade
12 mins
|
| agree |
Bourth (X)
: Nothing wrong with Brigade. The NZ RIfle Brigade was heavily involved in Flanders in WWI.
1 hr
|
|
Cheers
|
11 mins
possibilities
historical context will influence
infantryman/ infantry - fights on foot with small arms
foot soldier, footslogger, marcher
cavalryman/ cavalry
[n] a soldier mounted on horseback; "a cavalryman always takes good care of his mount"
[n] a soldier in a motorized army unit
artillery unit (also option)
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Note added at 12 mins (2004-08-21 14:41:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
sharpshooter may also fit (some specialized titles exist depending upon historical context)
infantryman/ infantry - fights on foot with small arms
foot soldier, footslogger, marcher
cavalryman/ cavalry
[n] a soldier mounted on horseback; "a cavalryman always takes good care of his mount"
[n] a soldier in a motorized army unit
artillery unit (also option)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2004-08-21 14:41:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
sharpshooter may also fit (some specialized titles exist depending upon historical context)
+2
26 mins
Hervé du Verle
Native in French
23 yrs in French medical edition
Native in: French (Variant: Canadian) 
Works in: English to French, French to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
do not translate
Personally, I would not translate the name of the units. You would not translate into French "Welsh Guards" or "Grey Sots". Old french infantry included (as in other European countries) many types of more or less specialised units, depending on their training, origins, and the "dirty work" to do first... (1st line, 2nd line, etc.).
Therefore, I would keep it as it is, eventually adding after chasseurs and between commas, "the riflemen regiments", for instance, so that the reader may understand.
Moreover, I am not so sure that all young French readers could make the difference between "un régiment de tirailleurs" and "un régiment de chasseurs", nor even understand what is "light infantry" compared to G.I. Joe...
Therefore, I would keep it as it is, eventually adding after chasseurs and between commas, "the riflemen regiments", for instance, so that the reader may understand.
Moreover, I am not so sure that all young French readers could make the difference between "un régiment de tirailleurs" and "un régiment de chasseurs", nor even understand what is "light infantry" compared to G.I. Joe...
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Philip Taylor
: Often I'd agree, but I think a translation of this type (where the end-user is presumably to be an anglophone child) needs to read entirely smoothly and without French-language references, explained or not,.
6 mins
|
|
quite true, though... (see my reply to Bourth). ;O)
|
|
| agree |
Bourth (X)
: Jules Verne isn't (just) for children is he? I think we say things like "Fallschirmjäger" and "Panzer" division (not to mention Gestapo and SS) rather than translate it, so why not do the same for the French?
1 hr
|
|
That's the whole debate and I believe that J.V. is much less read by young children as he used to. (old-style novels?). Moreover keeping in Fr as might add to the "exotic flavour" of the nover for foreing readers, as seen in similar novels transl. > FR.
|
|
| agree |
verbis
1 day 9 hrs
|
+2
1 hr
fusileer (US), fusilier (UK)
"du 2e tirailleurs" =
"of the 2nd Fusileers/Fusiliers"
As Michel points out, what is being referred to here are the units.
"8e chasseurs" could be translated as "8th Artillery" (no need for unit, brigade, batallion, etc. after either "Fusileers/Fusiliers" or "Artillery".
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: Yes, I repeat my comment on Irat's answer above, and I agree entirely with the point you and Tom are both making about the way we'd express the name of a unit like this in English
16 mins
|
| agree |
Aisha Maniar
47 mins
|
1 hr
comment
I'm no military historian, but it would seem logical for me to believe that cultural differences from one country to another, especially in years gone by, would make military units different from one country to another: different arms, different deployments, different purposes, etc. Therefore, to translate regimental names into "equivalent" names in another language would be a betrayal of their identity. Sure, DESCRIBE the "chasseurs" as "light infantry", but RETAIN the name.
Are the French "paras", the US "red berets", and the UK "SAS" the same? Not to me. Same for the Special Boat Service, the Navy Seals, and the epoux Turenge (Kiwi-ism oblige!).
Are the French "paras", the US "red berets", and the UK "SAS" the same? Not to me. Same for the Special Boat Service, the Navy Seals, and the epoux Turenge (Kiwi-ism oblige!).
Discussion