Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
étrave couteau
English translation:
plumb / straight / vertical bow
Added to glossary by
Tony M
Apr 28, 2013 20:08
11 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term
étrave couteau
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Ships, Sailing, Maritime
Quels sont les différents types d’étrave?
-Etrave couteau
Navire avec Lht fixe
C'est un extrait d'une présentation sur les impacts de la conception de la coque d'un sous-marin.
-Etrave couteau
Navire avec Lht fixe
C'est un extrait d'une présentation sur les impacts de la conception de la coque d'un sous-marin.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 1 | plumb bow |
Tony M
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| 3 | straight stem |
florence metzger
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References
| raking stem |
Michael GREEN
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| Stem or bow? |
B D Finch
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Change log
Apr 29, 2013 04:43: Françoise Vogel changed "Language pair" from "English to French" to "French to English"
Apr 29, 2013 21:45: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "Etrave couteau" to "étrave couteau"
May 1, 2013 21:28: Tony M Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
52 mins
Selected
plumb bow
Well, from the name and the description, I'd guess this is a vertical bow (hence the LOA and the LWL are the same), and according to this Google book, that may be called a 'plumb bow':
http://books.google.fr/books?id=SQ488peU_kgC&pg=PA65&lpg=PA6...
Note that we more usually refer to the shape of the 'bow' rather than the 'stem', despite the FR usage.
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Note added at 55 mins (2013-04-28 21:04:14 GMT)
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Also apparently called 'straight' or 'vertical' — the following link wouldn't work for me:
Glossary -- 'Plumb' Bows
www.history.navy.mil/photos/glossary/glos-p/plumb-bw.htm
This page features a definition of the term 'plumb' bow, with an ...
Example of a "plumb" bow (also called a "straight" or "vertical" bow): ...
This page seems to discuss bow shapes further, and has the advantage of being accessible:
http://www.jordanyachts.com/archives/1077
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Note added at 58 mins (2013-04-28 21:06:28 GMT)
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That said, the only references I could find to the term in FR seemed to be about a canoe with a quite different bow shape; but I think that is purely fortuitous.
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Note added at 11 hrs (2013-04-29 07:29:36 GMT)
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Here is a ref. that specifically mentions the (historical) use of the plmb bow on WWII submarines:
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solar Panels on Submarines - Psubs.org
www.psubs.org/mlist/archive/0801/msg00095.html
But it did seem to me that the plumb bow was used on the German Type XXI, Type XXIII, and the Japanese No. 71 class submarines, but I could be wrong about ...
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Note added at 12 hrs (2013-04-29 08:41:48 GMT)
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Asssuming that this might be what we're talking about, I just came across this lovely old photo of a WWI (?) submarine:
http://www.submarine-history.com/NOVAseal.jpg
http://books.google.fr/books?id=SQ488peU_kgC&pg=PA65&lpg=PA6...
Note that we more usually refer to the shape of the 'bow' rather than the 'stem', despite the FR usage.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 55 mins (2013-04-28 21:04:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Also apparently called 'straight' or 'vertical' — the following link wouldn't work for me:
Glossary -- 'Plumb' Bows
www.history.navy.mil/photos/glossary/glos-p/plumb-bw.htm
This page features a definition of the term 'plumb' bow, with an ...
Example of a "plumb" bow (also called a "straight" or "vertical" bow): ...
This page seems to discuss bow shapes further, and has the advantage of being accessible:
http://www.jordanyachts.com/archives/1077
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 58 mins (2013-04-28 21:06:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
That said, the only references I could find to the term in FR seemed to be about a canoe with a quite different bow shape; but I think that is purely fortuitous.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2013-04-29 07:29:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here is a ref. that specifically mentions the (historical) use of the plmb bow on WWII submarines:
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solar Panels on Submarines - Psubs.org
www.psubs.org/mlist/archive/0801/msg00095.html
But it did seem to me that the plumb bow was used on the German Type XXI, Type XXIII, and the Japanese No. 71 class submarines, but I could be wrong about ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2013-04-29 08:41:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Asssuming that this might be what we're talking about, I just came across this lovely old photo of a WWI (?) submarine:
http://www.submarine-history.com/NOVAseal.jpg
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you very much"
9 hrs
French term (edited):
Etrave couteau
straight stem
une suggestion...
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: In EN, we'd more usually talk about 'bow' than stem, unlike in FR. / Of course! When talking about the shape, it is more usual to refer to 'bow' and 'stern' — 'stem' more properly refers to the physical element. Not wrong, but probably less usual.
33 mins
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bow and stem are english words....
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| neutral |
Michael GREEN
: "stem" is indeed a standard term (see dictionnaire technique de la marine ISBN 2-85608-031-6), but "étrave couteau" doesn't suggest a "straight stem" to me (which is given as "étrave droite" in my dico)."Raking stem" maybe ("étrave élancée")?
1 hr
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Reference comments
11 hrs
Reference:
raking stem
There are few google references fr this term, or for "étrave couteau", but the illustrations in the link below (albeit for a kayak), described as having an "étrave couteau", clearly shows a stem which is sharply raked.
I'm not familiar with submarines - too claustrophobic for me - but I believe I have seen pics of subs with raked bows.
I'm not familiar with submarines - too claustrophobic for me - but I believe I have seen pics of subs with raked bows.
Example sentence:
""Vent d'Ouest" fera 5m44, avec un massik de 48 cm, fin, élancé, avec une forme traditionnelle. Bouchains vifs et une étrave couteau."
"She is double-ended with a sharp, raking stem, longhead bow, and sharp stern."
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| neutral |
Tony M
: I found that too, Mike, but I believe that is specific to that particular craft (and writer?). I think this is more likely to be the vertical knife-like bow (cf comment about LOA)
4 mins
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I have no particular expertise in the matter, Tony, but since the term is so rare in FR, your guess is as good as mine in the absence of an illustration provided with the source text.
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Discussion
flare out bow étrave à devers
spoon bow avant à cuiller
club foot évasement de la base de l'étrave