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What is post-editing exactly? Thread poster: Alan Wang
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wherestip 
United States
Local time: 19:08
Chinese to English
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| Have you ever thought of the following | Mar 24, 2013 |
nigerose wrote: wherestip wrote: 请问你的大牙能笑掉吗？ 除了“⑴夸张不是浮夸，必须合乎情理，不能脱离生活的基础和依据。”这个原则， 还有我上面说的“约定俗成”（成语）原则。 除此之外的hyperbole或者exaggeration就会显得funny，ridiculous，比如猫毛被风吹光了。
你有你的原则， 其他人或许原则与你不同。
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 19:08
Chinese to English
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“风刮得那么大，我头发都快刮光了。”
这种玩笑难道都不能开吗？
[Edited at 2013-03-24 04:17 GMT]
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nigerose
China
Local time: 08:08
Chinese to English
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wherestip wrote: nigerose wrote: wherestip wrote: 请问你的大牙能笑掉吗？ 除了“⑴夸张不是浮夸，必须合乎情理，不能脱离生活的基础和依据。”这个原则， 还有我上面说的“约定俗成”（成语）原则。 除此之外的hyperbole或者exaggeration就会显得funny，ridiculous，比如猫毛被风吹光了。 你有你的原则， 其他人或许原则与你不同。
大原则是这样，但是，还有一个小原则：There are a thousand Hamlets in a thousand people's eyes
不讨论了。
[修改时间: 2013-03-24 04:11 GMT]
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ysun
United States
Local time: 19:08
English to Chinese
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 08:08
Chinese to English
| Cultural framing | Mar 24, 2013 |
我原来提出来的那句话，Steve说得很对，跟一些英美典型动画片情节很有关系。
这种“视觉比喻”在每个地方都不同——我发现，我完全看不懂日本漫画，因为我不理解其中的一些象征性的标志，比如说某某人物的额头上出现三个竖线，是什么意思？生气？疑惑？不高兴？因为这是漫画中的惯例，所以熟悉漫画的人肯定知道，可以一下子了解作者想表达的心情，但我�... See more 我原来提出来的那句话，Steve说得很对，跟一些英美典型动画片情节很有关系。
这种“视觉比喻”在每个地方都不同——我发现，我完全看不懂日本漫画，因为我不理解其中的一些象征性的标志，比如说某某人物的额头上出现三个竖线，是什么意思？生气？疑惑？不高兴？因为这是漫画中的惯例，所以熟悉漫画的人肯定知道，可以一下子了解作者想表达的心情，但我作为外人就是不懂。
再举个例子：中国的老鼠吃米，英美老鼠吃奶酪，使得这两种食物在不同国家的“视觉想象”中有不同的联系。
狗追猫，高速度导致人/动物的毛发被风吹光，这些想法都来自于我从小积累起来的英式视觉想象库，的确与中国的思维习惯有所不同。这并不是说，中文没办法表达这种概念，但是在英文里，只要稍微提一提，读者马上就理解我想一个什么样的情形，而在中文里，必须加以解释，为读者建设起读者所缺乏的framing文化框架。
or just throw up your hands and declare that Chinese people don't think that way?
Welcome to my world! ▲ Collapse
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Phil Hand wrote:
狗追猫，高速度导致人/动物的毛发被风吹光，这些想法都来自于我从小积累起来的英式视觉想象库，的确与中国的思维习惯有所不同。这并不是说，中文没办法表达这种概念，但是在英文里，只要稍微提一提，读者马上就理解我想一个什么样的情形，而在中文里，必须加以解释，为读者建设起读者所缺乏的framing文化框架。
「中文」當然也並不是一種單一的文化。在香港出生的，小時候也是看慣英美動漫畫（也看慣日本動漫畫、港式漫畫……），有人說狗追猫追得毛也被吹光是病句，是不合情理，我就只是覺得莫明其妙。
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Zhoudan
Local time: 08:08
English to Chinese
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“狗追猫，追得毛也被吹光了”这句话的前面，要是加上“动画片里”，我就不会说这句话是病句。没有这个前提，我不会往动画片上想。
Ambrose Li wrote: Phil Hand wrote:
狗追猫，高速度导致人/动物的毛发被风吹光，这些想法都来自于我从小积累起来的英式视觉想象库，的确与中国的思维习惯有所不同。这并不是说，中文没办法表达这种概念，但是在英文里，只要稍微提一提，读者马上就理解我想一个什么样的情形，而在中文里，必须加以解释，为读者建设起读者所缺乏的framing文化框架。 「中文」當然也並不是一種單一的文化。在香港出生的，小時候也是看慣英美動漫畫（也看慣日本動漫畫、港式漫畫……），有人說狗追猫追得毛也被吹光是病句，是不合情理，我就只是覺得莫明其妙。
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 08:08
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | post-editing | Mar 25, 2013 |
I am curious why some people consider it “sad that professionals have to be told not to use it”.
Does the end ever justify the means? If so, what’s the harm with utilizing machine translations other than diminished vanity?
Should translators consider their ultimate aim is quality, not their vanity? If they could save time by making use of a translation engine and use the saved time to polish the work and improve its quality, why not?
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 08:08
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | post editing | Mar 25, 2013 |
Here is a piece by post editing I did by way of exercising.
I don’t know how much time it would have cost me if I had to check the words for their meanings one by one using an electronic dictionary. But, I am sure it would have cost someone more dearly with a still zealous bent on tradition using a couple of chunky paperback dictionaries.
本发明公开了一种液膜分离提取博落回中生物碱... See more Here is a piece by post editing I did by way of exercising.
I don’t know how much time it would have cost me if I had to check the words for their meanings one by one using an electronic dictionary. But, I am sure it would have cost someone more dearly with a still zealous bent on tradition using a couple of chunky paperback dictionaries.
本发明公开了一种液膜分离提取博落回中生物碱的方法。
The present invention discloses a method for extracting alkaloid from macleaya cordata by liquid membrane separation process.
其乳状液的制备是以食用油作为膜溶剂，以Span 80 或Span 80 与助表面活性剂的混合物作为表面活性剂，磷酸脂作载体，再将pH =4 的博落回盐酸提取液或硫酸提取液与乳状液按照乳水体积比为 (50 : 5 - 50 : 20) 加入提取器中，在200 转/分~300 转/分的低速搅拌提取5 -15min; 经水浴加热破乳后分出油层，所得水相即为博落回中总生物碱的溶液。
The emulsion liquid to be prepared involves the use of edible oil as the membrane solvent, Span 80 or a mixture of Span 80 and a cosurfactant as the surface active agent, and a phosphate ester as the carrier. This liquid and the acid (hydrochloric or sulfuric) extract solution (pH 4) of the plant material are introduced into an extraction vessel at a volume ratio from 50: 5 to 50: 20. The mixture is stirred for 5-15 min. at 200 ~ 300 rev / min. and water-bath heated to obtain demulsification and separation of oil layer from the aqueous layer containing total alkaloids.
本方法使用食用油作为膜溶剂，解决了乳状液膜法目前所使用的有机溶剂有毒，不适用于中草药提取后人、兽使用的难题。
This method employs edible oil as a membrane solvent eliminating the inappropriate use of toxic organic solvents in medicinal herbal extraction for people and animal use.
整个提取过程快速、高效、操作简单。可应用于博落回药品、生物农药、兽药等产品的生产和开发及博落回中生物碱的分析测定。
The entire extraction process is fast, efficient and easy to operate and can be applied to the manufacture and development of macleaya cordata related medicines, bio-pesticides, veterinary drugs as well as analytical measurement of alkaloids in the plant. ▲ Collapse
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 19:08
Chinese to English
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Alan Wang wrote: Here is a piece by post editing I did by way of exercising. I don’t know how much time it would have cost me if I had to check the words for their meanings one by one using an electronic dictionary. But, I am sure it would have cost someone more dearly with a still zealous bent on tradition using a couple of chunky paperback dictionaries.
Alan,
Have you ever thought of the possibility of Google Translate just taking from others' completed translations that are already published on the web, and dumping the entire results out?
It's good for an exercise to prove that Google achieved something development-wise by matching and choosing text from the vast data base out there. But do you really think it is of any use when it comes to you accomplishing real-life assignments? What agency is going to assign you stuff that is already translated by professionals and is already published on the web?
[Edited at 2013-03-25 12:14 GMT]
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 19:08
Chinese to English
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| Google Translate | Mar 25, 2013 |
wherestip wrote:
Have you ever thought of the possibility of Google Translate just taking from others' completed translations that are already published on the web, and dumping the entire results out?
On second thought, I might be overly skeptical and entirely wrong.
Perhaps Google Translate is more apt at matching results on scientific terminology from various fields. If that is the case, by all means use it to increase your productivity. 
But with that said, if that's how you're trying to improve your language skills, IMO you're going about it the wrong way. You're basically not being honest with yourself. It has nothing to do with one's vanity, diminished or not, but one's true ability.
[Edited at 2013-03-25 14:15 GMT]
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 08:08
Chinese to English
| I've translated that | Mar 25, 2013 |
I guess we must work for the same agency.
The answer to your question is simple: post-editing means that you skip the look-up process, so you don't fully understand the text. When I translated that I didn't look up macleaya in the dictionary, I ran it through an encyclopedia and google scholar. If you didn't do that, if you just let goog translate make the decision for you, then you haven't understood the text, and you can't be sure that it's right. If you did do that background rea... See more I guess we must work for the same agency.
The answer to your question is simple: post-editing means that you skip the look-up process, so you don't fully understand the text. When I translated that I didn't look up macleaya in the dictionary, I ran it through an encyclopedia and google scholar. If you didn't do that, if you just let goog translate make the decision for you, then you haven't understood the text, and you can't be sure that it's right. If you did do that background reading, then using MT wouldn't have saved you any time. ▲ Collapse
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 19:08
Chinese to English
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| A simpler example | Mar 25, 2013 |
Phil Hand wrote:
The answer to your question is simple: post-editing means that you skip the look-up process, so you don't fully understand the text. When I translated that I didn't look up macleaya in the dictionary, I ran it through an encyclopedia and google scholar. If you didn't do that, if you just let goog translate make the decision for you, then you haven't understood the text, and you can't be sure that it's right. If you did do that background reading, then using MT wouldn't have saved you any time.
Exactly, Alan. If you didn't know what "jumping up and down" really meant in English usage, how could you be certain that Google Translate didn't give you a bum steer?
[Edited at 2013-03-25 14:07 GMT]
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 08:08
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | it's exercise only | Mar 25, 2013 |
@Phil
I disagree with that: post-editing lets a translator to concentrate on what is important and pay less attention to what is not or what is already handy and clearly right. On that note, it does save some time.
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 08:08
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | how about the cat? | Mar 25, 2013 |
wherestip wrote:
Exactly, Alan. If you didn't know what "jumping up and down" really meant in English usage, how could you be certain that Google Translate didn't give you a bum steer?
[Edited at 2013-03-25 14:07 GMT]
Even if you are right that "上窜下跳" can never under any circumstance be translated as "jumping up and down", which i certainly totally disagree, can you also deny that "cat" is a good fit for 猫？ or "dog" is a good fit for 狗？
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