| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | What is post-editing exactly? Thread poster: Alan Wang
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wherestip 
United States
Local time: 20:48
Chinese to English
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Alan Wang wrote: wherestip wrote:
Exactly, Alan. If you didn't know what "jumping up and down" really meant in English usage, how could you be certain that Google Translate didn't give you a bum steer?
[Edited at 2013-03-25 14:07 GMT] Even if you are right that "上窜下跳" can never under any circumstance be translated as "jumping up and down", which i certainly totally disagree, can you also deny that "cat" is a good fit for 猫？ or "dog" is a good fit for 狗？
Yes, they are. I give you that.
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 20:48
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Google Translate | Mar 25, 2013 |
Alan,
All kidding aside, if you feel that using MT software truly gives you an edge, nobody is here to say otherwise. Only you would know.
Results would always speak for themselves though. And I have to say that I haven't found any satisfactory results by simply pulling some everyday simple sentences - either Chinese or English - out of the air and giving Google Translate a try.
Of course I'm not talking about 猫、狗， How's the weather?, etc..![]() ... See more Alan,
All kidding aside, if you feel that using MT software truly gives you an edge, nobody is here to say otherwise. Only you would know.
Results would always speak for themselves though. And I have to say that I haven't found any satisfactory results by simply pulling some everyday simple sentences - either Chinese or English - out of the air and giving Google Translate a try.
Of course I'm not talking about 猫、狗， How's the weather?, etc.. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 09:48
Chinese to English
Alan Wang wrote:
can you also deny that "cat" is a good fit for 猫？ or "dog" is a good fit for 狗？
I certainly can deny it:
ADSL猫不能上网，是不是猫有问题?
The ADSL cat can not be Internet is not a cat problem?
Still think cat is such a great match for 貓?
post-editing lets a translator to concentrate on what is important and pay less attention to what is not or what is already handy and clearly right. On that note, it does save some time.
1) You don't know what is important until you go and do the research, and the computer *never* knows what's important.
2) Often in the process of doing research, you find yourself picking up more terms in context, which helps you to write much more natural-sounding target text.
3) With electronic look-up, it really doesn't take any time to check a term. Click-copy-change window-paste-Google-wikipedia-Google scholar. That's less than five seconds for me, assuming my internet connection isn't playing up. And it's a lot more certain than relying on GT.
I don't have any particular problem with the use of MT by those who want to. But:
If you think MT allows you to achieve the same quality in less time, you're dreaming. Quality takes time.
Out of every 1000 users of MT, 999 are incompetent translators abusing it. So when I see use of MT, my first reaction is: joker.
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 20:48
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Never say never | Mar 25, 2013 |
Alan Wang wrote:
Even if you are right that "上窜下跳" can never under any circumstance be translated as "jumping up and down", which i certainly totally disagree ...
I never said or implied any such thing as "never under any circumstance". But I encourage you to come up with an example of this, and maybe we could discuss it further.
[Edited at 2013-03-25 16:43 GMT]
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 09:48
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | Am I joking? | Mar 25, 2013 |
Any argument will have to be based on some shared common sense or it would go nowhere.
Here, the common sense is not to deny that 猫 here means cat, not some electronic modem.
One can forget translating if he doesn’t know what is important - what is difficult or what one does not know yet or what the GT makes mistakes about. Talking about research, if you don’t know what needs research, how to start?
Electronic look up, that’s for sure. But when you are l... See more Any argument will have to be based on some shared common sense or it would go nowhere.
Here, the common sense is not to deny that 猫 here means cat, not some electronic modem.
One can forget translating if he doesn’t know what is important - what is difficult or what one does not know yet or what the GT makes mistakes about. Talking about research, if you don’t know what needs research, how to start?
Electronic look up, that’s for sure. But when you are looking it up, the person who uses GT may be doing it for confirmation, that’s double security.
I am not joking.
Phil Hand wrote: Alan Wang wrote:
can you also deny that "cat" is a good fit for 猫？ or "dog" is a good fit for 狗？
I certainly can deny it: ADSL猫不能上网，是不是猫有问题? The ADSL cat can not be Internet is not a cat problem? Still think cat is such a great match for 貓? post-editing lets a translator to concentrate on what is important and pay less attention to what is not or what is already handy and clearly right. On that note, it does save some time. 1) You don't know what is important until you go and do the research, and the computer *never* knows what's important. 2) Often in the process of doing research, you find yourself picking up more terms in context, which helps you to write much more natural-sounding target text. 3) With electronic look-up, it really doesn't take any time to check a term. Click-copy-change window-paste-Google-wikipedia-Google scholar. That's less than five seconds for me, assuming my internet connection isn't playing up. And it's a lot more certain than relying on GT. I don't have any particular problem with the use of MT by those who want to. But: If you think MT allows you to achieve the same quality in less time, you're dreaming. Quality takes time. Out of every 1000 users of MT, 999 are incompetent translators abusing it. So when I see use of MT, my first reaction is: joker. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alan Wang
China
Local time: 09:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | good suggestion | Mar 25, 2013 |
You have to give me an example where it can't be translated as such, and how you would translate it. Then we can go on your exercise.
wherestip wrote: Alan Wang wrote:
Even if you are right that "上窜下跳" can never under any circumstance be translated as "jumping up and down", which i certainly totally disagree ...
I never said or implied any such thing as "never under any circumstance". But see if you could come up with an example of this, and maybe we could discuss it further. [Edited at 2013-03-25 16:35 GMT]
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 20:48
Chinese to English
+ ...
Alan Wang wrote: You have to give me an example where it can't be translated as such, and how you would translate it. Then we can go on your exercise. wherestip wrote: Alan Wang wrote:
Even if you are right that "上窜下跳" can never under any circumstance be translated as "jumping up and down", which i certainly totally disagree ...
I never said or implied any such thing as "never under any circumstance". But see if you could come up with an example of this, and maybe we could discuss it further.
Alan,
Not to disrespect you, but I think your thinking is a little muddled. You are saying "上窜下跳" can be translated into "jumping up and down", while I say in most circumstances it cannot. Who bears the responsibility of coming up with an example of these two phrases being interchangeable and being a good translation of each other?
Actually, I can think of a borderline case. But do you think I want to mention it at this point?
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 20:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
Alan Wang wrote: Here is a piece by post editing I did by way of exercising. I don’t know how much time it would have cost me if I had to check the words for their meanings one by one using an electronic dictionary. But, I am sure it would have cost someone more dearly with a still zealous bent on tradition using a couple of chunky paperback dictionaries. 本发明公开了一种液膜分离提取博落回中生物碱的方法。 The present invention discloses a method for extracting alkaloid from macleaya cordata by liquid membrane separation process. 其乳状液的制备是以食用油作为膜溶剂，以Span 80 或Span 80 与助表面活性剂的混合物作为表面活性剂，磷酸脂作载体，再将pH =4 的博落回盐酸提取液或硫酸提取液与乳状液按照乳水体积比为 (50 : 5 - 50 : 20) 加入提取器中，在200 转/分~300 转/分的低速搅拌提取5 -15min; 经水浴加热破乳后分出油层，所得水相即为博落回中总生物碱的溶液。 The emulsion liquid to be prepared involves the use of edible oil as the membrane solvent, Span 80 or a mixture of Span 80 and a cosurfactant as the surface active agent, and a phosphate ester as the carrier. This liquid and the acid (hydrochloric or sulfuric) extract solution (pH 4) of the plant material are introduced into an extraction vessel at a volume ratio from 50: 5 to 50: 20. The mixture is stirred for 5-15 min. at 200 ~ 300 rev / min. and water-bath heated to obtain demulsification and separation of oil layer from the aqueous layer containing total alkaloids. 本方法使用食用油作为膜溶剂，解决了乳状液膜法目前所使用的有机溶剂有毒，不适用于中草药提取后人、兽使用的难题。 This method employs edible oil as a membrane solvent eliminating the inappropriate use of toxic organic solvents in medicinal herbal extraction for people and animal use. 整个提取过程快速、高效、操作简单。可应用于博落回药品、生物农药、兽药等产品的生产和开发及博落回中生物碱的分析测定。 The entire extraction process is fast, efficient and easy to operate and can be applied to the manufacture and development of macleaya cordata related medicines, bio-pesticides, veterinary drugs as well as analytical measurement of alkaloids in the plant.
不知这是否又是一篇 test translation？若是，不知你是否通过？若你通过了，那么我恭喜你！
迄今为止，Google translate 的产物离高质量译文还有很大差距。对于 Google translate 的产物，还必须化相当多的时间和精力进行编辑修改，才能得到高质量译文。Google translate 也许可以节省一些查词典的时间，但你若过分相信 Google translate 翻译的术语，那就很危险。对于 Google translate 产生的结果，还必须去粗存精、去伪存真。此外，科技文章并非是科技术语简单堆砌的产物。如果你不理解或不能充分理解文章的内容，那就很难准确地加以翻译。我觉得你对原文的理解还是有些欠缺的。以你如下这句为例：
The mixture is stirred for 5-15 min. at 200 ~ 300 rev / min. and water-bath heated to obtain demulsification and separation of oil layer from the aqueous layer containing total alkaloids.
其原文是：“在200 转/分~300 转/分的低速搅拌提取5 -15min; 经水浴加热破乳后分出油层，所得水相即为博落回中总生物碱的溶液”。原文的意思是在低速搅拌条件下提取5 -15min，但你却把最关键的“提取”二字漏掉了。请别忘了，这是在“提取器”中进行的过程。原文说“经水浴加热破乳后分出油层”，而你的译文是 water-bath heated to obtain demulsification and separation of oil layer。"to obtain demulsification and separation" 这种说法，我也是第一次听说。“水浴加热”的目的只是为了“破乳”，而不是 to obtain ... separation of oil layer。“破乳”之后还有一个分离过程，并不是说水浴加热就能自动分出油层。再说，“破乳”和“分离”只是手段而不是目的。此外，water-bath heated 这种表达方式也很怪。通常的说法是 heated in a water bath。
从以上例子可以看出，你的 editing 过于灵活，往往偏离了原意。又如，“其乳状液的制备”（Preparation of the emulsion）变成了 “The emulsion liquid to be prepared ”，那意思就变了。BTW，emulsion 就是乳状液，后面那个 liquid 是多余的。这里的表面活性剂是 surfactant。你所用的 “surface active agent” 含义更广，包括但不限于 surfactant。既然你把“助表面活性剂”译成了 co-surfactant，那为什么不顺理成章地把“表面活性剂”译为 surfactant 呢？另外，“提取器”通常译为 extractor，而不是 extraction vessel；“rev / min” 通常写为 rpm；“人、兽使用”通常译为 “for human and animal use”，而不是 “for people and animal use”。我并非是说你的某些表达方式是绝对错误的，只是觉得不大符合常规。如果你经常看一看这一领域的科技文章，也许你会同意我的意见。
以上意见，仅供参考。
[Edited at 2013-03-26 07:45 GMT]
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 09:48
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | What I suspect is | Mar 26, 2013 |
People who don’t do it simply don’t know how to properly utilize it, which means you have to know requisite text processing skills. Without these skills, saving time or energy could very well be a dream.
For example, some clients require the use of such tools as trados or sdlx etc.
It will be a problem making use of GT if you have to translate a big file with one of these tools.
Even if you are only required to translate it in Word document, you have to know some basic te... See more People who don’t do it simply don’t know how to properly utilize it, which means you have to know requisite text processing skills. Without these skills, saving time or energy could very well be a dream.
For example, some clients require the use of such tools as trados or sdlx etc.
It will be a problem making use of GT if you have to translate a big file with one of these tools.
Even if you are only required to translate it in Word document, you have to know some basic text processing skills to arrange the texts in such a way as to be able to save some meaningful time or energy (or increase productivity if not lazy).
An extreme case in point involving text processing skills and GT (both are almost indispensable)
Once a client sent me a 200 k file of Chinese characters, indicating that I translate one or two pages to see how long it would take and what would be the total cost, fully intending not to go through with the whole document because the cost would be unbearable. It was a file completely made up of different-length strings of technical phrases connected by dashes. The final result was that I reduced the 200 k file into about 4 k of phrases that needed to be suitably translated with GT. After double checking the reverse-reduction process began to build up the whole document.
I got handsomely paid for the 4 k words - 1200 USD, mostly done by google translate because they were phrases. The client was unbelievably happy to boot, thinking it couldn’t have been done.
I just want to give an idea that the possibility exists. I am not the one to despise this possibility even if it makes me “unprofessional”. But, as to the above case, even if you are the number one True Professional minus GT in this trade, you couldn’t possibly do it as satisfactorily client-wise. First, you need the text processing skills, secondly, GT, because GT is great at translating these technical phrases and if you are not sure about any churned out, you can check it.
By the way, I am not going to tell anyone of the text processing skills I am talking about (not joking), I intend to patent them (joking)! ▲ Collapse
| | | | nigerose
China
Local time: 09:48
Chinese to English
+ ...
| google translation | Mar 26, 2013 |
本发明公开了一种液膜分离提取博落回中生物碱的方法。
其乳状液的制备是以食用油作为膜溶剂，以Span 80 或Span 80 与助表面活性剂的混合物作为表面活性剂，磷酸脂作载体，再将pH =4 的博落回盐酸提取液或硫酸提取液与乳状液按照乳水体积比为 (50 : 5 - 50 : 20) 加入提取器中，在200 转/分~300 转/分的低速搅拌提取5 -15min; 经水浴加热破乳后分出油层，所得水相即为博落回中总�... See more 本发明公开了一种液膜分离提取博落回中生物碱的方法。
其乳状液的制备是以食用油作为膜溶剂，以Span 80 或Span 80 与助表面活性剂的混合物作为表面活性剂，磷酸脂作载体，再将pH =4 的博落回盐酸提取液或硫酸提取液与乳状液按照乳水体积比为 (50 : 5 - 50 : 20) 加入提取器中，在200 转/分~300 转/分的低速搅拌提取5 -15min; 经水浴加热破乳后分出油层，所得水相即为博落回中总生物碱的溶液。
本方法使用食用油作为膜溶剂，解决了乳状液膜法目前所使用的有机溶剂有毒，不适用于中草药提取后人、兽使用的难题。
整个提取过程快速、高效、操作简单。可应用于博落回药品、生物农药、兽药等产品的生产和开发及博落回中生物碱的分析测定。
The present invention discloses a liquid membrane separation method of alkaloid extract Macleaya gyrus.
Preparation of emulsion-based edible oil as a film of the solvent, Span 80 or Span 80, with the co-surfactant mixture as a surface active agent, a phosphate ester as a carrier, and then at pH = 4 Bo fall back extract or sulfuric acid hydrochloride extract with the emulsion in accordance with the milk water volume ratio is (50: 5 - 50: 20) is added to the extraction vessel, the extraction at low speed agitation 200 rev / min to 300 rev / min for 5-15min; heated by a water bath after demulsification stars out of the reservoir, and the resulting aqueous phase is Bo falling back to total alkaloids solution.
This method uses the edible oil as membrane solvent solve the emulsion liquid membrane method currently used toxic organic solvents, does not apply to the herbal extract descendants beast problems.
Entire extraction process is fast, efficient and easy to operate. Can be applied to Macleaya medicines, bio-pesticides, veterinary drugs and other products production and development Macleaya, Huizhong alkaloids determination.
post editing还不如我直接翻译快。google翻译看多了，会让你学到googlish （Google English），而不是地道的English。 ▲ Collapse
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 20:48
English to Chinese
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| Google translation | Mar 26, 2013 |
把“博落回”译为 “Bo falling back”? 那还不如译为 “not falling back”。Of course, I am just kidding!
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 20:48
English to Chinese
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把“不折腾”译为 “bu zhe teng”，倒也无可非议。
[Edited at 2013-03-26 07:25 GMT]
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Alan Wang
China
Local time: 09:48
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | not to hurry | Mar 26, 2013 |
ysun wrote:
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以上意见，仅供参考。
[Edited at 2013-03-26 07:45 GMT]
Thanks.
I am still waiting for wherestip to show up and say that he agrees with you!
Before that, i am not sure that the mistakes or whatever are even real or just a figment of your imagination.
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 20:48
Chinese to English
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| expert in one's field | Mar 26, 2013 |
Alan Wang wrote: ysun wrote:
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以上意见，仅供参考。 Thanks. I am still waiting for wherestip to show up and say that he agrees with you! Before that, i am not sure that the mistakes or whatever are even real or just a figment of your imagination.
Alan, why should I? I don't stick my nose in where it doesn't belong. I'm almost positive that whatever Yueyin said is accurate because that is his field.
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 20:48
Chinese to English
+ ...
Of course I agree with what Yueyin pointed out - 100% after reading his critique. Not only that, He only touched on the important points that would prevent a test sample from getting a passing grade. If you want a deep dive or thorough scrutiny, there is a lot more room for improvement.
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