| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | 如何面对后俄乌冲突时代的全球技术翻译市场 Thread poster: Renquan Yang
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Jianrong Sun 
China
Local time: 22:33
Member (2019)
English to Chinese
+ ...
1.在中国大陆，只要会翻墙，每个人都能上Twitter。例如，胡锡进，你懂的。
2.Proz上不适合讨论，不等于不能讨论。就是说，由于墙内外的不对等，某些话题得不到充分地展开。
3. Face to Face Talk比笔谈失真的可能性要小，只是举一例，不必过度解读。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 09:33
English to Chinese
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| About SWIFT, PayPal and Payoneer | May 22, 2022 |
Jianrong Sun wrote:
@ysun
1. 有一问题请教：假如我们现在不能再用SWIFT, 那么我们现在使用的PayPal和Payoneer收款的方式会受影响吗？
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Some Russian translators in this thread are discussing about sanctions, SWIFT, PayPal and Payoneer. If interested, you can go there for details:
https://www.proz.com/forum/russian/356407-чем_заменить_пейпел.html
The lady Inga Velikanova in Russia started this thread on March 1st and said she was unable to use PayPal for transferring her money and asked if there were any alternative ways to transfer money. The Ukrainian couple Nadezhda & Vatslav Yehurnovy immediately told her that it would be impossible to withdraw money from anywhere very soon by using bank cards of Russian banks. Another translator in Russia says it was because Alfa Bank (the biggest private bank in Russia) was sanctioned. Another one in Russia said Raiffeisen Bank (an Austrian Bank) was leaving Russia.
The translators are also talking about alternative ways to transfer money, such as using Wise, Payoneer and etc. You can go to that site for more details if interested.
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 09:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
| It is said that Proz.com is NOT working in Russia | May 22, 2022 |
In this Russian thread:
https://www.proz.com/forum/russian/356453-multitran_не_работает.html
A Russian translator Zamira said on March 4, 2022 that Multitran on-line dictionary didn't work. In another post, she said that Proz.com appeared to be not working in Russia, either.
However, another translator mk_lab located in Kiev, Ukboth said both M... See more In this Russian thread:
https://www.proz.com/forum/russian/356453-multitran_не_работает.html
A Russian translator Zamira said on March 4, 2022 that Multitran on-line dictionary didn't work. In another post, she said that Proz.com appeared to be not working in Russia, either.
However, another translator mk_lab located in Kiev, Ukboth said both Multitran and Proz.com worked just fine in Ukraine. This translator, mk_lab, seems to be friendly, but the message was very clear, as you know.
I am also able to view the Multitran's Russian website from here in the United States, and everything works just fine, too:
http://www.multitran.ru/ ▲ Collapse
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 09:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Hu may steal a horse while others may not even look over the hedge | May 23, 2022 |
Jianrong Sun wrote:
1.在中国大陆，只要会翻墙，每个人都能上Twitter。例如，胡锡进，你懂的。
2.Proz上不适合讨论，不等于不能讨论。就是说，由于墙内外的不对等，某些话题得不到充分地展开。
3. Face to Face Talk比笔谈失真的可能性要小，只是举一例，不必过度解读。
I know that Hu has full freedom "without an upper limit" to use VPN for accessing Twitter. However, a logical question which doesn't take a high IQ to answer would be whether everybody in mainland China would be allowed to use VPN without getting troubles.
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LIZ LI
China
Local time: 22:33
French to Chinese
+ ...
ysun wrote:
I know that Hu has full freedom "without an upper limit" to use VPN for accessing Twitter. However, a logical question which doesn't take a high IQ to answer would be whether everybody in mainland China would be allowed to use VPN without getting troubles.
Last time I checked, Twitter wasn't of such importance in the history of mankind.
Why would everybody in mainland China like to get access to it?
回归主题，不知是不是跟俄乌冲突有关，好多LSP都在找中俄CATTI-1。
可惜俄语对我来说已经不可能……只能去京东聊表支持。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 09:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Logically speaking | May 23, 2022 |
LIZ LI wrote: ysun wrote:
I know that Hu has full freedom "without an upper limit" to use VPN for accessing Twitter. However, a logical question which doesn't take a high IQ to answer would be whether everybody in mainland China would be allowed to use VPN without getting troubles. Last time I checked, Twitter wasn't of such importance in the history of mankind. Why would everybody in mainland China like to get access to it?
Logically speaking, these are two completely different questions:
It is a logical question which doesn't take a high IQ to answer whether everybody in mainland China would be allowed to use VPN without getting troubles.
On the other hand, it is a difficult question which does take a high IQ to answer whether everybody in mainland China would be in need to get access to Twitter.
The first question is closely related to a proverb "One may steal a horse while others may not even look over the hedge" while the second question is not related to the proverb at all.
By the way, the first one is my question, but the second one is NOT. 
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule |
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | LIZ LI
China
Local time: 22:33
French to Chinese
+ ...
| ysun
United States
Local time: 09:33
English to Chinese
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| What does "拱火" mean and how to translate it? | May 24, 2022 |
Jianrong Sun wrote:
@LIZ LI 伶牙俐齿！
Jianrong Sun，
你称赞 LIZ 伶牙俐齿，让我联想起外交部发言人华春莹，以及她“金句” 中的“金词儿”：拱火。有很多人称华春莹为华大姐或华大妈。我也许只能称她为“靓妹”。
拱火似乎是出于一种方言，所以我一开始不大理解，后来查了汉语词典后才豁然开朗。
汉语词典的解释是：
拱火：〈方〉（拱火儿）用言行促使人发火或使火气更大：他已经烦得够受的，你就别再拱火了。
对于“拱火”，外交部的官方翻译是：“fanned the flames”
【双语】例行记者会/Regular Press Conference（2022-2-24）
https://www.51haodu.com/t/M2lVellzcjNwQw==
华春莹：我给你提一个建议，你可以去问问美方，他们不断拱火、点火，现在打算怎么灭火？
Hua Chunying: A suggestion for you. You may go ask the US: they started the fire and fanned the flames, how are they going to put out the fire now?
如果“拱火、点火”是这个意思，我建议不如直接写成老百姓耳熟能详的“煽风点火”。不过，外交部的秘书和翻译都是国家队，我不敢吹毛求疵。看了下面这张照片之后，我觉得她所谓的“拱火” 可以理解为 "incite fighting" 或 “inflame”。
Definition of incite:
https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/law/law/incite
in·cite / inˈsīt/
• v. [tr.] encourage or stir up (violent or unlawful behavior): the offense of inciting racial hatred.
∎ urge or persuade (someone) to act in a violent or unlawful way
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/incite/related
All related terms of 'incite'
incite hatred
Hatred is an extremely strong feeling of dislike for someone or something.
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Definition of inflame:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inflame
1a : to excite to excessive or uncontrollable action or feeling
especially : to make angry
b : to make more heated or violent : INTENSIFY
insults served only to inflame the feud
以上，我只是抛砖引玉，希望能引出许多“玉句”或“金句”译文来。当然，也欢迎用砖头砸我！我同意华春莹对“拱火”的理解，“好了，现在你们可以开始打我了！”
| | | | Jianrong Sun
China
Local time: 22:33
Member (2019)
English to Chinese
+ ...
你称赞 LIZ 伶牙俐齿，让我联想起外交部发言人华春莹，以及她“金句” 中的“金词儿”：拱火。有很多人称华春莹为华大姐或华大妈。我也许只能称她为“靓妹”。
我只是跟她开个玩笑@ LIZ。
拱火似乎是出于一种方言，所以我一开始不大理解，后来查了汉语词典后才豁然开朗。
华大妈，还有复旦大学的张维为喜欢用“拱火”一词，不用“煽风点火”，估计是避免“煽风点火”一词带有文革意味。
不过，外交部的秘书和翻译都是国家队，我不敢吹毛求疵。
不必过谦，外交部也是人，是人也会犯错误。举一例，以前我未涉足翻译领域，以为他们都是大神；事实上，你们都知道，translation的正确率大于90%，interpretation的正确率大于60%，就算基本合格；Twitter上就有好事者将外交部的顶级译员的口译，做了一个勘误表。
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ysun
United States
Local time: 09:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
Jianrong Sun wrote:
我只是跟她开个玩笑@ LIZ。
华大妈，还有复旦大学的张维为喜欢用“拱火”一词，不用“煽风点火”，估计是避免“煽风点火”一词带有文革意味。
不必过谦，外交部也是人，是人也会犯错误。举一例，以前我未涉足翻译领域，以为他们都是大神；事实上，你们都知道，translation的正确率大于90%，interpretation的正确率大于60%，就算基本合格；Twitter上就有好事者将外交部的顶级译员的口译，做了一个勘误表。
你所说的“translation的正确率大于90%，interpretation的正确率大于60%，就算基本合格” 这句话，我还真不知道，不知这是谁定的标准。但我相信这绝不是外交部定的标准。外交部的翻译都是百里挑一、千里挑一挑出来的，我是衷心佩服，不是故作谦虚。
我又进一步查了一下，拱火是北京官话。北京人说话时常带儿化音。于是，我就问一位北京人，“拱火”是不是北京那一带人所说的话？他说是，然后随口就给我举了个例：“你可别拱我火！别挑事儿！”华春莹是江苏淮阴人。我估计她是到北京工作之后才学的“拱火”这词儿。简单说，拱火就是煽动，希望把已经点着的火煽得越来越旺、四处蔓延。因此，华春莹所说的“拱火、点火”合起来才是“煽风点火”的意思。“煽风”在具体形式上是用扇子扇，但其根本目的是挑起事端、扩大事端。我认为，在翻译时，应该点出这一居心叵测的目的。
至于煽风点火，这是一句早就存在的成语，比喻煽动别人做坏事，并非是文革时期才产生的语言。
文革时期常能听到的语言是这样的：“某某某躲在阴暗的角落里，煽阴风、点鬼火，唯恐天下不乱。我们一定要把他揪出来，打翻在地，再踏上一只脚，让他永世不得翻身！”诸如“打翻在地，再踏上一只脚，让他永世不得翻身”之类的语言均来自于毛选里的《湖南农民运动考察报告》。
| | | | Renquan Yang
China
Member (2007)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
嗯，“煽风点火”，这词儿的语境国人皆知，刺激力度有点不适合非战争条件下的外交发言。华姐也是语言学霸出身，轻重拿捏还是炉火纯青的。“拱火”相对中性些，与“煽风点火”同样传神，但没那么刺激而已。要想针锋相对，对外交部发言人而言实在易如反掌，只是他们的职责决定了自身发言不可能像普通人那样随意发挥。
——“translation的正确率大于90%，interpretation的正确率大于60%，就算基本合格”@Jianrong Sun
从技术翻译的角度看，对这句话的前半部分基本上无法认可，后半部分可以认可。如果按照这个标准去“笔译”专利或者技术性很强的文献，肯定会让客户抓狂，尽管技术性文献属于死文字，但准确度要求高，误差1%-2%可以接受，超过5%就观感不好了。当然这里的误差往往指objective error，不是preferential modification，这个没法准确评估。就objective error而言，想象一下，一份5万字的专利，涉及objective error的文字占了5千字，那客户看了修改的译文后不疯掉才怪。
| | | | Jianrong Sun
China
Local time: 22:33
Member (2019)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Renquan Yang wrote:
嗯，“煽风点火”，这词儿的语境国人皆知，刺激力度有点不适合非战争条件下的外交发言。华姐也是语言学霸出身，轻重拿捏还是炉火纯青的。“拱火”相对中性些，与“煽风点火”同样传神，但没那么刺激而已。要想针锋相对，对外交部发言人而言实在易如反掌，只是他们的职责决定了自身发言不可能像普通人那样随意发挥。
——“translation的正确率大于90%，interpretation的正确率大于60%，就算基本合格”@Jianrong Sun
从技术翻译的角度看，对这句话的前半部分基本上无法认可，后半部分可以认可。如果按照这个标准去“笔译”专利或者技术性很强的文献，肯定会让客户抓狂，尽管技术性文献属于死文字，但准确度要求高，误差1%-2%可以接受，超过5%就观感不好了。当然这里的误差往往指objective error，不是preferential modification，这个没法准确评估。就objective error而言，想象一下，一份5万字的专利，涉及objective error的文字占了5千字，那客户看了修改的译文后不疯掉才怪。
@Renquan Yang
1. 关于“煽风点火”的语境说明，我同意你的解读。
2. “translation的正确率大于90%，interpretation的正确率大于60%，就算基本合格”--这不是我的观点，这是知乎上好事者统计的数据。从我二年多做技术翻译的review的经历来看，我认可90%、60%的统计数据。
@ysun
"外交部的翻译都是百里挑一、千里挑一挑出来的，我是衷心佩服，不是故作谦虚。"
以口译为例：
也许你看到的是国内记者招待会的Interpretation水平；好在现在网络发达，可以看到外交部译员在正式外交场合的Interpretation；你也可以在Twitter上看到好事者针对外交部译员口译做的勘误表，很及时的，看了你就知道了，什么叫山外有山。因为这种场合的口译是无法提前准备的。
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