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глядите, до какой нелепицы доходят греки � они нас считают �человекоядцами�!
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Dec 20, 2009 19:19
14 yrs ago
Russian term

стучащему да откроется

Russian to English Social Sciences Religion
стучащему да откроется
судите по плодам
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 knock and it shalt be open
4 +2 to him who knocks may it be opened
3 +2 may it be opened to him who seeks
4 knock and doors shall open
4 knock, and it shall be opened unto you
References
http://bible.cc/luke/11-9.htm

Discussion

DTSM Dec 22, 2009:
"judged by its fruit" occurs in the Basic English version but 'known by its (own) fruit' is definetely much more widely known.
James McVay Dec 21, 2009:
I see that something got left out of my last discussion entry. I meant to add a suggestion that you use the common English paraphrase "by their fruits you shall know them."

Interestingly, both the Russian Bible and the English Bible have "узнать/know" instead of "судить/judge." Luke 6:37 has "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged . . .." But that pertains to the judgement of God, not of man.

BTW, the King James translation has this for Luke 6:43 & 44:

"43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
"44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes."

Still, I think the underlying meaning of all the verses referring to fruit are about the same -- you can know (judge in the sense of evaluate) people by their actions.
DTSM Dec 21, 2009:
or it may be a reference to Луки 6:43 "Ведь не бывает хорошего дерева, которое приносило бы гнилые плоды, как не бывает и гнилого дерева, которое приносило бы хорошие плоды. 44 Каждое дерево узнают по его плодам". That's Luke 6:44 'For every tree is judged by its fruit', and my option for "судите по плодам" would be 'judge by the fruit' or something like that. And I think you can use what James is suggesting but that will draw a different allusion.
James McVay Dec 21, 2009:
I think "судите по плодам" is a paraphrase of Матфей 7:20 "Итак по плодам их узнаете их." Searching on http://bibleonline.ru/ I couldn't find anything worded more closely than that, but maybe someone who knows their Russian Bible can straighten me out. But if I'm right, that appears to be a paraphrase, too.

The King James translation of that verse reads "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
collie jones (X) (asker) Dec 21, 2009:
спасибо большое!!

подскажите также пожалуйста по фразе судите по плодам
viazov Dec 21, 2009:
Dear Friends & colleagues-- if you settle for "it will" or "it shall" be opened, you're settling for an approximation in too great a hurry. The King James translation is irrelevant; we need to deal with the original text. And it gives an injunction, not a future: "may or let it be opened..."
DTSM Dec 20, 2009:
Thank you, James! Yes, that's what I'm trying to say here. The original does employ biblical language but , hey, it's not a biblical quotation!
James McVay Dec 20, 2009:
Dmitry is right in my opinion. Since the original is a paraphrase (of "стучите, и отворят вам"), your translation should also be a paraphrase. For what it's worth, though, here are the complete verses as translated in the King James version. That just happens to be the version I have on hand. Other translations probably have "will" instead of "shall."

Matt. 7: 7: Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you . . .

Luke 11: 9: And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
DTSM Dec 20, 2009:
А что переводим? Точную цитату из Библии? Или аллюзию на эту цитату, которая, хм,имеет несколько иной смысл?

Proposed translations

+5
33 mins
Selected

knock and it shalt be open

...
Peer comment(s):
agree schlosser (X) : knock, and it shall be opened unto you
6 mins
right, thanks: I got distracted by my baby to whom I was saying "Justin thou shalt keep your maw closed". Shame on me – particularly for the "open" 'nstead of "opened"
agree Rachel Douglas : Except "shall" and "opened". KJV: "Seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" (Matt. 7:7, Luke 11:9 are identical on that). This link shd give modern translations: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=7&v=7&t=KJV...
14 mins
Thou art correct and I'm an inattentive slob!
agree Judith Hehir : Plus: Ye shall know them by their fruit. It's okay, Michael. I didn't want to point out the bruises in the fruit, but I noticed the verb in particular. The helping verb, that is.
31 mins
Thanks Judy. I shalt be more attentive though: I screwed up both the person (shalt is second – not third) and "open" in stead of "opened"... and so by my fruit I should be known as a slob!
agree Dr Lofthouse : agree with schlosser (knock and it will be opened unto you' ('shalt' is wrong)
41 mins
yeah, it's actually the second not the third person... but it sounded so nice!
agree gutbuster : The Kingdom of God is within thee. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and the door shall be opened unto thee.
11 hrs
Зависит от того – ЧЕМ будешь стучать! А то Манька и не отопрёть!!! :)
neutral DTSM : выражение "стучащему да откроется" не встречается в Библии// печально
11 hrs
в библии “ищите и обрящетем столците и отверзется вам“.Ну и что?Здесь–ссылка/парафраз, а не прямая цитата. И, опять же, ну и что?Да и потом, что именно откроется зависит от того – кто стучит,на кого стучит,кому стучит...или по чему стучит, ЧЕМ стучит! Ха!
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks a lot"
16 mins

knock and doors shall open

.
Something went wrong...
1 hr

knock, and it shall be opened unto you

New testament, Gospel according to St. Matthew, Chapter 7 verse 7
(king James Authorized version)

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Something went wrong...
+2
8 mins

may it be opened to him who seeks



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 мин (2009-12-20 19:32:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Мне слышится библейская аллюзия.
Просите, и дано будет вам; ищите, и найдете; стучите, и отварят вам; ибо всякий просящий получает, и ищущий находит, и стучащему отворят.» (МФ. 7, 7- 8.)

For every one that asks receives; and he that seeks finds; and to him that knocks it shall be opened (Matthew 7:8)

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Note added at 24 мин (2009-12-20 19:43:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ой, ошибочка! Должно быть: may it be opened to him that KNOCKS

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Note added at 2 час (2009-12-20 21:30:57 GMT)
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ДА
...
11. (в сочет. с глаг. 3 л. наст. и буд.).
Выражает приказание, пожелание, призыв; пусть. Да будет вам известно. Да пропади всё пропадом. Да провалиться мне на этом месте. Да будь по-твоему. * Да ведают потомки православных Земли родной минувшую судьбу (Пушкин). Рука дающего да не оскудеет (Библия). < Да, неизм.; ср. 1.
http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?word=��&all=x

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 час (2009-12-20 21:33:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

MAY
5) выражает пожелание

Long may you reign! — Да будет Ваше правление долгим!
http://lingvo.abbyyonline.com/en/Translate?Text=may&SourceLa...

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Note added at 2 час (2009-12-20 21:36:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

...ever read anything like that before? )
Peer comment(s):
agree Yuri Smirnov : Еще можно Лк. 11:10. Но почти то же самое
6 mins
Да, Юрий, верно. Спасибо!
agree Alexander Ryshow : отвОрят
31 mins
Спасибо, Александр! Закопипастил из интернета первое, что подвернулось...
Something went wrong...
+2
30 mins

to him who knocks may it be opened

In Church Slavonic and archaizing Russian styles the expression да + perfective future has the sense "let / may X happen"; thus in this quote, reminiscent of Luke 11:10 (not quite coinciding with the Church Slavonic Bible, but close)

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Note added at 8 hrs (2009-12-21 03:41:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends & colleagues-- if you settle for "it will" or "it shall" be opened, you're settling for an approximation in too great a hurry. The King James translation is irrelevant; we need to deal with the original text. And it gives an injunction, not a future: "may or let it be opened..."
Peer comment(s):
agree DTSM
1 hr
agree Deborah Kolosova
17 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

11 hrs
Reference:

http://bible.cc/luke/11-9.htm

.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral DTSM : Этого выражения нет в Библии http://www.bible-center.ru/btsearch?text=стучащему да открое...
14 mins
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