Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
durch maschinelle Bearbeitung beglaubigt
English translation:
certified by machine processing
Added to glossary by
Beatrix D
Nov 8, 2015 06:50
8 yrs ago
52 viewers *
German term
durch maschinelle Bearbeitung beglaubigt
German to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Unter einer Kopie eines Protokolls einer öffentlichen Sitzung am Gericht:
"Durch maschinelle Bearbeitung beglaubigt - ohne Unterschrift gültig"
Ich sehe es in der Form "automatically generated - valid without signature" recht häufig, sehe es hier aber zum ersten Male mit "beglaubigt". Sagt man dann "automatically certified"?
"Durch maschinelle Bearbeitung beglaubigt - ohne Unterschrift gültig"
Ich sehe es in der Form "automatically generated - valid without signature" recht häufig, sehe es hier aber zum ersten Male mit "beglaubigt". Sagt man dann "automatically certified"?
Proposed translations
(English)
References
| Similar question E>D |
Edith Kelly
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Proposed translations
+1
1 day 10 hrs
Selected
certified by machine processing
Just going to post my thoughts from the discussion as an answer.
The note is based on §169 ZPO
"Eine in Papierform zuzustellende Abschrift kann auch durch maschinelle Bearbeitung beglaubigt werden. Anstelle der handschriftlichen Unterzeichnung ist die Abschrift mit dem Gerichtssiegel zu versehen. Dasselbe gilt, wenn eine Abschrift per Telekopie zugestellt wird." [emphasis mine]
And there's an "official" translation for it:
"A copy to be served in paper format may also be certified by machine processing. Instead of being signed by hand, the copy is to be furnished with the court seal. The same shall apply if a copy is served by telefax."
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_zpo/englisch_zpo....
Thus, "certified by machine processing - valid without signature" should work.
It's neither "automatically," nor is there supposed to be a "but" in there: The lack of a signature is intentional.
There are other ways of saying it, but since this one can be googled quickly and will let the reader find the appropriate paragraph, I think it's the best match.
Another variant: certified by court's seal, which includes the stamp bit.
One German explanation:
"Das Gesetz zur Förderung des elektronischen Rechtsverkehrs mit den Gerichten eröffnete die Möglichkeit der maschinellen Beglaubigung von zuzustellenden Schriftstücken.
Seit Juli 2014 sind damit zahlreiche gerichtliche Schreiben auch ohne Unterschrift rechtsverbindlich. Als Authentizitätsnachweis genügt die maschinelle Beglaubigung mit Gerichtssiegel.
Für die Gerichte bedeutet dies eine Entlastung, da Geschäftsabläufe vereinfacht und beschleunigt werden."
https://hzd.hessen.de/neue-wege-für-behördenbriefe-mit-zepot...
Or, if you want to follow up on Edith's reference suggestion, just say "Certified copy - valid without signature," albeit it doesn't state any reason for "beglaubigt."
The note is based on §169 ZPO
"Eine in Papierform zuzustellende Abschrift kann auch durch maschinelle Bearbeitung beglaubigt werden. Anstelle der handschriftlichen Unterzeichnung ist die Abschrift mit dem Gerichtssiegel zu versehen. Dasselbe gilt, wenn eine Abschrift per Telekopie zugestellt wird." [emphasis mine]
And there's an "official" translation for it:
"A copy to be served in paper format may also be certified by machine processing. Instead of being signed by hand, the copy is to be furnished with the court seal. The same shall apply if a copy is served by telefax."
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_zpo/englisch_zpo....
Thus, "certified by machine processing - valid without signature" should work.
It's neither "automatically," nor is there supposed to be a "but" in there: The lack of a signature is intentional.
There are other ways of saying it, but since this one can be googled quickly and will let the reader find the appropriate paragraph, I think it's the best match.
Another variant: certified by court's seal, which includes the stamp bit.
One German explanation:
"Das Gesetz zur Förderung des elektronischen Rechtsverkehrs mit den Gerichten eröffnete die Möglichkeit der maschinellen Beglaubigung von zuzustellenden Schriftstücken.
Seit Juli 2014 sind damit zahlreiche gerichtliche Schreiben auch ohne Unterschrift rechtsverbindlich. Als Authentizitätsnachweis genügt die maschinelle Beglaubigung mit Gerichtssiegel.
Für die Gerichte bedeutet dies eine Entlastung, da Geschäftsabläufe vereinfacht und beschleunigt werden."
https://hzd.hessen.de/neue-wege-für-behördenbriefe-mit-zepot...
Or, if you want to follow up on Edith's reference suggestion, just say "Certified copy - valid without signature," albeit it doesn't state any reason for "beglaubigt."
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Ed Ashley
: Happy to support Björn on this one after all the digging he's done!
9 mins
|
|
Thank you, Edward! Digging included reading forum entry after forum entry about the decline of the German legal system - all I wanted to find was a nice reference explanation, ugh.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for doing the digging and explaining. That's the one I'll use"
58 mins
Vittorio Ferretti
Native in German
Author of renowned dictionary
Native in: German 
, Italian 
Works in: English to German, Italian to German, Spanish to German, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
3
automatically certified
siehe Beispiel im Link
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
barbarameyer
: Your ref link is not relevant to the asker's context, viz Protokoll einer öffentlichen Sitzung am Gericht
1 day 37 mins
|
| neutral |
Ed Ashley
: Seconded
1 day 9 hrs
|
-1
5 hrs
computer-generated but valid without signature; machine-generated but valid without signature
(Closer to the author's wording and intent.)
"Automatically certified" is slightly ambiguous and confusing, especially to a reader who is not a native speaker of English.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2015-11-09 02:00:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Alternative 1: computer-generated but deemed certified despite the lack of a signature.
Alternative 2: machine-generated but validly certified despite the lack of a signature.
"Automatically certified" is slightly ambiguous and confusing, especially to a reader who is not a native speaker of English.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2015-11-09 02:00:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Alternative 1: computer-generated but deemed certified despite the lack of a signature.
Alternative 2: machine-generated but validly certified despite the lack of a signature.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
barbarameyer
: Your translation conveniently ignores the 'beglaubigt' part of the question term.// Sorry, not beglaubigt, but gültig = valid, hence changing my 'neutral' to 'disagree'.
4 hrs
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"valid" = beglaubigt. (Think about it.)
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Reference comments
53 mins
Edith Kelly
Switzerland
Switzerland
Native in German
&
English
Specializes in field
Switzerland
Professional conference interpreter
Native in: German , English
Works in: German to English, English to German, Dutch to German, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
396
Reference:
Similar question E>D
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Ed Ashley
: While this discussion refers to trade register records, the principle is the same
5 hrs
|
| neutral |
Björn Vrooman
: The point here is "maschinell bearbeitet," which refers to §169 ZPO (see discussion) and it is not what it appears to be. I know you said "similar," but the important phrase isn't part of the earlier ProZ question.
6 hrs
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Discussion
"A copy to be served in paper format may also be certified by machine processing. Instead of being signed by hand, the copy is to be furnished with the court seal. The same shall apply if a copy is served by telefax."
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_zpo/englisch_zpo....
Why move away from the seemingly official translation? I guess "certified by machine processing - valid without signature" works then. People may look up what it means online.
PS: The suggestion of "automatically certified" pertains to a whole other realm of issues. The link given as reference is from the music industry and counts singles, albums, etc. sold until reaching a certain limit to be "automatically certified." I have no idea how this warrants an inclusion here.
https://newstopaktuell.wordpress.com/2015/02/18/tageswitz-so...
See an example (scroll down to end):
http://files.vogel.de/iww/iww/quellenmaterial/dokumente/1428...
There is no signature, just an official stamp. Yes, I'll have to correct myself here, in essence, "maschinelle Bearbeitung" means the document is created by means of a typewriter or PC - but what if the stamp is missing?
I know the phrase "...ist elektronisch erstellt worden und daher ohne Unterschrift gültig," for invoices, although legally, its validity is in dispute.
I do agree, Ed, with your notion about "but" - it is the point of this entire paragraph to say that because of the document being a copy created by means of a machine it is indeed valid without a signature - not in spite of it.
Hence, if you want to make it clear to non-ENS, I guess you should say something such as "duly certified by machine imprint," as they do here: (next post)
Please see the following paragraph of the ZPO:
"Eine in Papierform zuzustellende Abschrift kann auch durch maschinelle Bearbeitung beglaubigt werden. Anstelle der handschriftlichen Unterzeichnung ist die Abschrift mit dem Gerichtssiegel zu versehen. Dasselbe gilt, wenn eine Abschrift per Telekopie zugestellt wird."
This seems to have nothing to do with electronically generated; that is dealt with in the next paragraph:
"Ein Schriftstück kann in beglaubigter elektronischer Abschrift zugestellt werden. Die Abschrift ist mit einer qualifizierten elektronischen Signatur des Urkundsbeamten der Geschäftsstelle zu versehen."
http://dejure.org/gesetze/ZPO/169.html