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HTF v ministry of interior
Feb 23, 2018 08:46
6 yrs ago
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English term

to barrio or not to barrio?

English Social Sciences Education / Pedagogy School performance and academic outcomes
Bit of a straw poll here. I'm translating an ES-EN text (Spain, Europe), which will be submitted for publication to either a European or North American publication, and I'm wondering if nowadays it's okay to just leave "barrio" as is, or if I should italicise it, or whether I should just dump it and use a translation.

These are the options I'm considering so far:

1.- "The school is located in a barrio with one of the lowest socio-economic and cultural levels in western Andalusia."

2.- "The school is located in an area (barrio) with one of the lowest socio-economic and cultural levels in western Andalusia."

3.- "The school is located in an area/district/neighbourhood with one of the lowest socio-economic and cultural levels in western Andalusia"
Responses
4 +7 Translate it
4 barrio (+translation)

Discussion

Björn Vrooman Feb 24, 2018:
In journalism, space is at a premium, at least to a certain extent, and you will already have to get rid of all those brackets/parentheses. One example (guess that's not the best to choose here):

DE:
Americans for Legal Immigration Political Action Committee (ALIPAC)

Subsequent mention: ALIPAC

EN (AP):
Americans for Legal Immigration Political Action Committee

Subsequent mention: the committee (or similar reference, or need to spell it out a second time)

Now, imagine you have to include all those descriptions too.

In short: If the word is not central to the story, I wouldn't expect some kind of explanation. Whether it's Lörrach district or county, you can google it. In any case, it's in southern Germany and the main point is not where it is exactly, but what output the on-site installation can achieve.

I hope that was understandable; bit pressed for time today.

To all of you: Enjoy your weekend!
Björn Vrooman Feb 24, 2018:
Thanks, Neil!

@Charles and Mihaela
I can relate to Neil's situation insofar as there are "Kreise" in Germany, which are called either districts or counties ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Districts_of_Germany ). Confusingly enough, some will use counties for Kreise and districts for Bezirke, but there aren't many left of the latter kind, so you either elevate counties to the status of districts or drop districts altogether. Conversely, "district" is well established when referring to Bezirke in German cities.

I think Tina's suggestion is closest if you need to get rid of the parentheses; but as you said, Charles, it's not required here because it may lead you down a slippery slope. To add a bit of hyperbole: If you choose not to translate barrio but explain it, you might be tempted to write "cocina, the Spanish word for 'kitchen'" in the next chapter.

[...]
Mihaela Spajic Feb 24, 2018:
Im confused Sorry, I'm not a Spanish speaker, I thought barrio is a spanish word with some deeper meaning, cultural background maybe, if its only meaning neighbourhood, why discuss this then :)
Charles Davis Feb 24, 2018:
To me, putting "a barrio (an area)" would be like putting "a calle (street)" or "a puente (bridge)". There's no point. Every city in the world (I imagine) is divided into neighbourhoods or areas, and every language spoken in cities must have a word for them. "Barrio" happens to be the Spanish one. There is nothing about a "barrio" that is systematically different from a "quartier" or a "Gegend" or a "quartiere" or a "buurt" or...

I think this only arises at all because in the US there are many cities with Hispanic areas and their residents might call them "the barrio". But this is not because there's no English word for it, but simply because their neighbourhood is, in a sense, an expression of their Hispanic identity.
neilmac (asker) Feb 23, 2018:
@Björn Not at all, your input is appreciated. BTW, I don't usually follow any particular style guide unless I'm instructed to by an author, client or the guidelines of the journal in question. The paper I'm translating at the moment was refused for being "too specific" by the first journal it was submitted to, and we're not yet sure where it will be sent next. I might tweak some of the terminology or spelling later, depending on the target audience. And I've decided to translate it as "neighbourhood" to avoid any negative connotations like the ones you mention.
Tina Vonhof (X) Feb 23, 2018:
The first time the word appears, I would take option 2 but turn it around without any translation or parentheses: "...the school is located in a barrio, an area...." That way you have already explained what it means and you can use 'barrio' by itself in the rest of the translation.
Mihaela Spajic Feb 23, 2018:
only suggestion Hi, I live in Croatia, like everyone we have also some typical or native words, with some cultural backgrounds, that are hard to translate, I would always try to keep the original word - in your case barrio - and put the translated meaning in brackets afterwards, in your case: barrio (area)... or in footnote
B D Finch Feb 23, 2018:
My take I've never lived in a Spanish-speaking country or even visited the US and don't speak Spanish. So, if option 1 looks fine to me and reads better than options 2 or 3, then my qualifications for choosing it could be considered impeccable.
Björn Vrooman Feb 23, 2018:
[...] However:
"a unit for administration of a public-school system often comprising several towns within a state"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/school district

Personally, I think both words aren't ideal, unless it's clear from the surrounding context what kind of barrio or district you're talking about.

Here's a good breakdown of L.A. districts and neighborhoods:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_districts_and_neighbor...

I'm sure when Charles and Helena see this question, they will have something to add.

Best
Björn Vrooman Feb 23, 2018:
Hello Neil Sorry for barging in here, as a non-ENS (though I live in a US-DE household), but this question piqued my interest.

While M-W gives you both options...
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barrio

...the Learner's Dictionary limits it to the meaning of mainly Spanish-speaking neighborhoods:
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/barrio

Wiki adds:
"The United States usage of the term barrio is also found in Venezuela and the Dominican Republic, where barrio is commonly given to slums in the outer rims of big cities such as Caracas and Santo Domingo as well as lower- and middle-class neighborhoods in other cities and towns."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrio

One example from the NY Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2016/02/28/realestate/wher...

The Urban dictionary:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Barrio

Now, Cambridge, as the dictionary for BrE usage, shows "poor" as part of the definition:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/barrio

This EU study uses barrio once (at the end) and district twice:
https://www.schooleducationgateway.eu/files/esl/downloads/13...

[...]

Responses

+7
2 hrs
Selected

Translate it

I can't see any good argument for not translating it. To me it's a perfectly ordinary word that is no more culturally specific than many others that we routinely translate. Terms should only be left in the original language, as a rule, if an important aspect of their meaning simply can't be reflected in any English term, but that's not the case here. I would only leave it in Spanish if there is some strong reason for reflecting the Hispanic connotations of the particular neighbourhood or area. This might be the case in Hispanic areas of US cities, for example. But in Western Andalusia, it's simply a neighbourhood or area of a city, and you should use the same word you would use if it were talking about the UK or the US. There are several standard translations, which you've mentioned in option 3. One of them would do fine, in my opinion.

Just before pressing the button I've seen the latest comment. I don't think "barrio" is a distinctively Hispanic concept at all (though it might be in certain specific contexts, in a text for a particular readership, as I've suggested). It's simply the Spanish word for an area of a city or a quarter or a neighbourhood.
Note from asker:
And in Valencia, when we say "the barrio", it usually means the Carmen... :)
Peer comment(s):
agree Björn Vrooman : That's in line with what I was thinking. Also, I don't know what style guide Neil is using, but AP doesn't like brackets/parentheses. Usually, you have to remove tons of them from documents written in German.
15 mins
Thanks, Björn! The AP is rather capricious in its tastes, I feel. I would be very reluctant to do without brackets/parentheses entirely, though they can certainly be overused.
agree Edith Kelly
2 hrs
Thanks, Edith!
agree Andy Watkinson
3 hrs
Cheers, Andy :-)
agree Jessie LN
3 hrs
Thanks, Jessie :-)
agree lorenab23 : Spanish word for an area of a city ;-)
5 hrs
Thanks, Lorena :-) Exactly!
agree Rachel Fell : as in, most English speakers probably don't know or understand the meaning of the word for Spain
1 day 11 hrs
Thanks, Rachel :-) // Yes, quite, and it's difficult to give an answer to this question without a knowledge of Spanish and Spanish-speaking countries, otherwise how can you tell whether it can or should be translated?
agree acetran
9 days
Thanks, acetran :-)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Went with "neighbourhood" in the end. Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions :-)"
6 hrs

barrio (+translation)

call it a personal preference, or just instinct - I would leave it as is. And add a translation the first time it's used.
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